88 - Bad flop line? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Wario

01-10-2005, 05:58 PM

My flop line doesn't seem right here. What do you think is a better flop line and why? Oh and tell me if you like the rest aswell.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: (7 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Also, just for the fun of it: Whoo!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 9c 9d (full house, aces full of nines).
Hero has 6c Ac (four of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.50 BB. 

Thanks.

Shillx

01-10-2005, 06:03 PM

Dude you are raising a bettor and a caller in hand one. That is awesome. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I will usually fold the flop. Sometimes I will call and then only call if MP3 folds to UTG+1's turn bet. Sometimes I will call all the way. If he has AK or AJ, just let him throw his $$$ away.

Hand 2: Raise the flop. I find that playing monster hands fast on the flop will get you more action later because they say "no way he will raise the flop with the case ace". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Brad

GrunchCan

01-10-2005, 06:06 PM

When you CR'ed the flop, what were you trying to accomplish?

Oh, on hand 2, check-fold the flop.

Wario

01-10-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you CR'ed the flop, what were you trying to accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, that's just been my default line for ages without me really putting much thought into it.

My hand is probably the best but it is also super vunerable. Allowing UTG+1 to bluff his overcards sounds good but it does little to protect my hand and I may end up giving a free card.

What about check/call the flop and then bet out any non King or Ace turn?

Wario

01-10-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Raise the flop. I find that playing monster hands fast on the flop will get you more action later because they say "no way he will raise the flop with the case ace". /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play my great hands fast on the flop, but dude I flopped quad Aces, that just needed some super sly ninja like slowplay

K C

01-10-2005, 06:19 PM

Hand 2 is straightforward - you played that perfectly in fact. Nice hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 1 is kinda strange though /images/graemlins/smile.gif I like the raise on the flop, and it gives you a chance to see where you're at as well. UTG+1 is the main worry here, and since he didn't re-raise, you may have him beat at this point. A re-raise from him and you should be tossing this. Getting 2 callers here wasn't the plan though and this indicates you need to be careful here.

The check on the river though is the interesting part. If you were going to check it would have made more sense to do it on the turn, although the bet there is fine. And, the fact that you checked and he bet on the river is probably bad news, although it's correct to call this.

KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

Shillx

01-10-2005, 06:21 PM

The check/call, bet the turn line is usually only good heads up against an ABC player who will raise a better overpair and call/fold overcards. With 2 queens on board, something like KK might just call the turn beat fearing that you have a queen in your hand. Against a tricky or LAG player it sucks, and with a caller in the hand it probably sucks too.

Brad

GrunchCan

01-10-2005, 06:35 PM

My hand is probably the best but it is also super vunerable.

In this spot, that does not equal a checkraise. If you had 5 people behind you yet to act, maybe it would protect your hand. But in this spot, there is no protecting your hand.

My line is bet the flop, bet the turn, check the river.

Wario

01-10-2005, 06:36 PM

I'm starting to agree more with what you're saying the more I look at it.

Let me see if I've got this right:

The best way for me to profit from this hand is to let UTG+1 bluff his possible worse hand. So I should basically just call down but check/fold a King or Ace. Of course if the other guy shows any aggression I'm outta there and I will also fold if he calls UTG+1's river bet.

Getting warmer?

toss

01-10-2005, 07:39 PM

What kinda player would you call all the way with?

Shillx

01-10-2005, 07:43 PM

Not a TAG. Not a typical player. Maybe a LAG or someone who just tries to run stone bluffs. They are pretty common at 5/10. They will just bet and bet AK no matter what.

Brad