KQo raised preflop.

[matt hooley]

This seemed weird at the time but I think calling down might be correct given the texture of the flop and the action. I didn't figure to be strong enough to make a flop raise profitable. Thoughts?


Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[shadow29]

I think you can safely fold on the river.

[LowDown22]

This ones tough for me. I think I would have raised the flop though. I'd like to force out CO if he's got a T so I can free up my Q outs, plus it may give me a chance for a free card on the turn. I'd like to hear some other opinions on this one.

[VBM]

pre-flop: eh...ur a little early to try and buy the button, so i'd probably just call.

flop: i might try to raise and buy a free turn card, but a 3-bet would suck. hopefully CO would go play w/ himself instead of calling 2.

turn: if i did get 3-bet on the flop, and UTG+1 is still betting into me, i call hoping for a T, a K, a Q ...

river: a blank &amp; UTG+1 still betting into me = me folding.
edit: i may call, if i have a specific read that UTG+1 will bet with a 2nd best pair or bet a busted draw hoping to win it...but very read-specific. for typical opponents, i take the fold line.

hope you won!
--oj.

[Jeff P]

I might fold this one on the turn, and I'm curious as to what others might say about that. With no reads I'm not sure what I'd do here, but I lean toward folding the turn (is that too weak/tight?) facing two opponents, and the fact that CO has overcalled this flop and cold-called PF.

I think hero has just enough odds to call on the flop, with 6 outs (2 Kings for a likely winner, and 4 Tens that might end up splitting the pot), but I sure wouldn't raise this flop.

[Jasmien]

[ QUOTE ]
I might fold this one on the turn, and I'm curious as to what others might say about that. With no reads I'm not sure what I'd do here, but I lean toward folding the turn (is that too weak/tight?) facing two opponents, and the fact that CO has overcalled this flop and cold-called PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

why fold here? You have at least (!) 6 outs (4 tens, 2 kings). Getting 6.25-1 this is an easy call (CO will probably call and youll get at least one bet on the river)

[tiltaholic]

Hi
preflop- good.

i raise the flop, primarily to get CO out and hopefully see a free turn card. if he leads into me again on the turn, i'd fold. the pot is small and none of your outs are crystal clean.

this suggestion is in the absense of reads, because the typical player who bets into the preflop raiser repeatedly can usually beat top pair, which you don't even have.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
pre-flop: eh...ur a little early to try and buy the button, so i'd probably just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you should be raising preflop every time here.

[meep_42]

I like raising the flop, betting if checked to on the turn, calling a c/r and folding the river UI. Or, calling if bet into and folding the river UI. If the flop is 3-bet, I check/call the turn and fold the river UI. I bet the river if checked to, fold to a c/r.

-d

[VBM]

y'think? i dunno...maybe i'm too much of a puss w/ KQo...

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
y'think? i dunno...maybe i'm too much of a puss w/ KQo...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this is a pre-flop raise.

[ArthurD]

I think that you MUST raise the flop. Try and steal the button, buy extra outs, and maybe buy yourself a free card. It will tell you where you stand with regards to the bettor. He could be betting trash. I would raise the flop, go from there.

[Shillx]

You saw that there was an ace on board, correct? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Eh we can fold this river can't we??

Brad

[Shillx]

We are probably drawing and the pot is small. Why do we want to knock CO out? The chance that we outdraw the flop bettor and the CO then outdraws us is amazingly small here.

Brad

[ArthurD]

Not true. If he's drawin to a Q for his straight, we need to raise to knock him out, raising to buy outs... The Ace is the REASON you must raise. You must make sure he's not simply betting his King, and you want to try and slow him down. You also try and knock out CO, and buy yourself the button, and a free card. The payoff for raising is very large, thats why I believe it's a must-do in this situation.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
Not true. If he's drawin to a Q for his straight, we need to raise to knock him out, raising to buy outs... The Ace is the REASON you must raise. You must make sure he's not simply betting his King, and you want to try and slow him down. You also try and knock out CO, and buy yourself the button, and a free card. The payoff for raising is very large, thats why I believe it's a must-do in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. The phrases "if he is betting his king" and "buy a free card" contradict each other.

If the guy is betting a king, we have the best hand and want to avoid giving a free card. The only way that raising can be good is if the CO has either a queen or a ten and will fold if we raise. Will an unknown player fold a gutshot straight draw for 2 bets here? I dunno, but if you think that he will, then you can't use the "these people are fishy and love to chase anything" arguement anymore (this goes for anyone reading this post).

Brad

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
The only way that raising can be good is if the CO...will fold if we raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it matter? If CO cold-calls with a gutshot, then he's still making a -EV move that puts money into the other players' pockets, possibly including our Hero.

[Shillx]

It's close between raising and calling. Really close. Calling/raising in this spot probably will not make much of a difference in the long run.

Brad