Did I play this too aggressive - how would you guys play this one?

[lstream]

Empire 3/6 8 handed

seat 1 : XXX XX A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif____CALL___CALL
seat 2 : XXX XX A/images/graemlins/club.gif______FOLD
seat 3 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif_____CALL___CALL
seat 4 : XXX XX 10/images/graemlins/spade.gif____FOLD
seat 5 : Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif________COMP
seat 6 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/club.gif__________FOLD
seat 7 : XXX XX 5/images/graemlins/club.gif__BRIN______FOLD
seat 8 : XXX XX 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif____FOLD

I know my queens were dead, but decided to complete anyway.

4th

seat 1 : XXX XX A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif____CHECK___CALL
seat 3 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif____CHECK___CALL
seat 5 : Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif_____BET

5th

seat 1 : XXX XX A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 10/images/graemlins/heart.gif___FOLD
seat 3 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___BET____CALL
seat 5 : Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___RAISE

6th

seat 3 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif____CHECK___CALL
seat 5 : Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif___BET

7th

seat 3 : XXX XX Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif XXX __CHECK___RAISE
seat 5 : Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 10/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___BET___CALL

[MRBAA]

Of course it depends a bit on the other players, but I like it. With two aces on the board, your likely best with Queens on 3rd. The raise on 5th is excellent, get that ace out. Note that with queens dead, your opponents probably got a pocket pair or a flush draw. Note he bet when he hit a suited card on fifth. For this reason, I'd probably just check/call the river -- since a missed flush will fold (unless he backs into two pairs) and a made flush will raise. Sounds like you probably got rivered (unless the K helped him on sixth, which seems unlikely unless he started with pocket kings).

[Vike]

I'd play it the same way. Big pairs are good to play shorthanded, and if I can get myself in such a situation I play them whether they are dead or alive. Really you're looking to make 2 pairs or have them hold up unimproved. Just because you can't make trips does not mean they are not worth playing at all anymore. Trips are really a bonus if you make them, sometimes you make trips and they do too and you win big, but most of the time 2 pairs is good enough.

If the Ace had limped and then re-raised I'd dump the Queens though, my hand would be too dead to play against Aces.

Nice (and obvious) raise on 5th to get rid of the Ace.

Pay off the river, sucks but you'll win enough of the time to pay off.

[Andy B]

I play it the same too. The fact that your Queens are dead is all the more reason to raise third street.

[MRBAA]

Just curious, though, do you guys bet the river here? I don't.

[Andy B]

I think you're going to get paid off by a smaller two pair far more often than you're going to get check-raised.

Amendment to my previous post: since hero is in late position, his raise is unlikely to get anyone out, so that's a reason not to raise.

[lstream]

Actually my thinking behind raising on third was not to drive people out. One ace had folded and the other had limped in. Everyone else, except the guy with the dead queen had been heard from. He had to have pocket kings or aces to have me beat. Aces were pretty unlikely, so I thought that I was very likely the best hand at that point, which is why I made the bet. I also thought that if I improved later, that my initial bet would have caused people to possibly think I had a stronger hand than I did.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[jon_1van]

Just to reiterate everyone...I like it all except for the 3rd street raise

[Vike]

Yeah I'd bet the river. There is a 4-flush showing so:

1) You might get paid off by 2 smaller pairs
2) You might get a better hand to fold such as Kings-up or trip sevens because they are afraid of your flush
3) I don't mind if they fold and never see my hands, makes them wonder what I could have betting a dead Queen from the start
4) I'd feel too much of a wimp and embarrassed not betting a 4-flush showing /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[MRBAA]

Andy, except against very loose, bad players I disagree. He's shown strength from the start, yet this guy is hanging in. It looks like there's a good chance a decent player has trip 7s, a flush draw (which won't pay off if it misses), or maybe even pocket kings that filled up on 6th. Against this, it's possible he started with something like pocket JJ -- 88 and raised on just two pair on fifth. I think it's about 50/50 if the guy's not a fish, and since you plan to call if raised, I think it's better to check (and possibly induce a bet if he does have a smaller two pair).

[MRBAA]

Vike, they will NOT fold kings up or trip 7s.

[jon_1van]

seconded

[Andy B]

This is $3/6, so I'm guessing there are a few loose, bad players there. I actually still think it's a bet against good players as well. You can't induce a bluff, since the other guy is first and has already checked. Except for leading on fifth, he has done nothing but check and call throughout the hand. A flush may check-raise, but he may fear that hero will check behind, so he might well bet out. Betting out also offers his best chance of getting three bets in on the river. A four-flush that misses completely won't pay off, but given that he's got one pair already, he's going to make two pair on the river a significant portion of the time. He's going to make this hand more often than he makes a flush or trips, and he might have that two pair already. I think it's a bet.

[Vike]

Yeah you are probably right, still some players do once in a while (probably not much at 3-6 though) in which case it makes it a profitable play.

[Andy B]

No one is folding a better hand than Queens-up. No one.

[lstream]

I lost to an AQ five card flush. He did not have two pair. I wonder if I would have been check-raised if he didn't have the ace, considering I had a KQ four flush on the board. This was part of my reasoning for betting on 7'th. I thought the only way he would raise me was if he hit the flush AND had an ace. Turned out he did.

For some reason, I have been losing a ton of hands like this recently. Guys catching an absolutely perfect card to beat a hand that I was leading until the river. Part of the reason this game has such a high variance, I guess.