Ghazban
01-10-2005, 12:55 PM
The concept in the topic title is one I've been trying fairly successfully in the 1/2 live games I play but it never seems to work online (because, at the stakes I play (BB<=$1), people don't fold enough to make it profitable).
A hand to illustrate this:
Live 1/2 at Foxwoods ($100 max buyin), I have ~500, SB has over 1K (has table covered), and UTG has ~350. UTG is not a fish, but is a little on the weak/tight side, SB is solid and on a rush of good cards that seems to have no end. I have 53o on the button.
UTG raises to 20 preflop. This is a larger-than-usual raise from him and I put him on something like AK or JJ-99. I think he'd be perfectly happy to just get the blinds and move on to hands where the button has passed him and he won't have to play out of position. I've been very tight all morning and have not shown down anything out of line. I make the call here giving UTG credit for having noticed this. SB comes along, too (much to my chagrin, as my plan was to either hit hard with garbage or put a play on UTG).
Flop: QJ7r (~60 in pot)
UTG leads out for 25. I sense great weakness here, so I quickly make it 75 to go, hoping SB didn't flop a set or something that HE was going to check/raise. SB thinks a long time, says "Hm, so you flopped a set? Do you want me to call?", etc. etc. before finally folding. UTG takes an even LONGER time to deliberate, then finally says "I think I have the best hand but I'm too much of a p---- to call" and folds his AKs face up (don't ask me why this was a hard laydown, given that he had no pair and only a gutshot draw). I show the 53o to oohs and aahs from the table and SB curses the fact that he laid down AQ. For the next few hours, I enjoyed lots of action on my legitimate raising hands (ah, the power of advertising in live games) and amassed a fairly nice stack.
Anyway, the particular hand aside, is this play +EV in the long run? To try it, I prefer to have the following conditions met:
1. The money is deep enough that anyone thinking of calling my raise also must deal with the idea of facing large bets on the turn and river as well.
2. The opponent(s) involved is/are capable of laying down one-pair type hands (TPTK, overpairs, etc.)
3. I don't do it very often. I'll do it MAYBE once or twice in a 14-hour session.
I suspect it doesn't work well in capped online games because the money is rarely deep enough for bets on later streets to be (potentially) large relative to the pot size. Furthermore, the value of advertising goes way down with the large amount of player turnover online.
Any thoughts?
A hand to illustrate this:
Live 1/2 at Foxwoods ($100 max buyin), I have ~500, SB has over 1K (has table covered), and UTG has ~350. UTG is not a fish, but is a little on the weak/tight side, SB is solid and on a rush of good cards that seems to have no end. I have 53o on the button.
UTG raises to 20 preflop. This is a larger-than-usual raise from him and I put him on something like AK or JJ-99. I think he'd be perfectly happy to just get the blinds and move on to hands where the button has passed him and he won't have to play out of position. I've been very tight all morning and have not shown down anything out of line. I make the call here giving UTG credit for having noticed this. SB comes along, too (much to my chagrin, as my plan was to either hit hard with garbage or put a play on UTG).
Flop: QJ7r (~60 in pot)
UTG leads out for 25. I sense great weakness here, so I quickly make it 75 to go, hoping SB didn't flop a set or something that HE was going to check/raise. SB thinks a long time, says "Hm, so you flopped a set? Do you want me to call?", etc. etc. before finally folding. UTG takes an even LONGER time to deliberate, then finally says "I think I have the best hand but I'm too much of a p---- to call" and folds his AKs face up (don't ask me why this was a hard laydown, given that he had no pair and only a gutshot draw). I show the 53o to oohs and aahs from the table and SB curses the fact that he laid down AQ. For the next few hours, I enjoyed lots of action on my legitimate raising hands (ah, the power of advertising in live games) and amassed a fairly nice stack.
Anyway, the particular hand aside, is this play +EV in the long run? To try it, I prefer to have the following conditions met:
1. The money is deep enough that anyone thinking of calling my raise also must deal with the idea of facing large bets on the turn and river as well.
2. The opponent(s) involved is/are capable of laying down one-pair type hands (TPTK, overpairs, etc.)
3. I don't do it very often. I'll do it MAYBE once or twice in a 14-hour session.
I suspect it doesn't work well in capped online games because the money is rarely deep enough for bets on later streets to be (potentially) large relative to the pot size. Furthermore, the value of advertising goes way down with the large amount of player turnover online.
Any thoughts?