New Urban Legend in the Northwest

....move over Saskwatch, we have a new urban legend, its called the invisible mariner. You know, the one that wins 116 games, is lucky to beat a so-so Indian team and then disappears - "Poof!" - when a team with character stands up to them. Lets review:

Seattle pushes to win 116 regular season games - a .716 winning clip and then, in the post-season plays 10 games and wins 4??? Imagine if the Yankees had done that in '98???


Some odds & ends:

rumors are coming out of Oakland and Seattle's marketing depts that they will add pinstripes to their uniforms in an effort to appease the baseball gods. Oakland's will have a classy Art Howe look to it, Seattle's of course will disappear at the 1st sign of adversity. Seattle is also adding green chokers as part of their uniform. The chokers will be just wide enough to display "We'll be back to Seattle for a Game 6" - I guess against Oakland in an exhibition of 100+ win chokers??


Diamondbacks series will be tough with 2 studs starting against the Bombers. Might we see a 5 1/2 over/under?

Cute eh? Typical Yankee fan, wins with class obviously! Had the M's won, I surely wouldn't be an ass, but hey doing that would make me, yes...A YANKEE FAN /images/smile.gif

on the overated chokers made one an ass. The great Yankees, once it gets to October, are in your boys' heads. Don't feel too bad -the Braves are even worse. After being up 2-0 in '96, they haven't won a game - lost 5 straight at home to the latest Bomber dynasty.


Loved that picture of Boone sitting in the dugout after game 4 laughing & shakin' his head in utter disbelief. No team could be this good - could it? No team can constantly, when the chips are down, do this time after time. Do you ever stop for a minute, take off your anti-Yankee sweater and realize how god-damn great this team is? Pressure cooker after pressure cooker this team comes through. How many series in a row now is this? 11 - imagine winning 11 series in a row?


BTW, Seattle & Oakland do play the game the right way, they just can't match the Yankees (at least not yet) when the chips are on the table. Maybe the D-backs can if both their studs pitch well.


Wanna know one of the reasons Rivera is so great? Besides dominating stuff, he has the right attitude. Remember when Pinella went off that "he plays by his own rules"? Well when they relayed that to Mariano, he didn't get "in-yer-face" mad or pissed or inner city "dissed" - he laughed. That's right - he laughed. That's why the Sweet Lou's of the world don't mess with him - they can't get under his skin. Rivera thought it was funny that an extra few tosses would become an issue. He gets it. Most of the Yankees do. Even fat-face Clemens is getting it - not a peep when Torre yanked him in the 5th with a lead in game 5 of the A's series. It's about W's my man and you should step away from your anti-Yankee vent for just a moment, and tip your cap to this latest page in the team of dynasties.


Go Bombers go.

I do tip their cap to them, they are a great team, an amazing team indeed. However I think most of their fans lack any class. Their "superiority" complex is ridiculous. When you beat a team you win, you celebrate, but you don't go back and ridicule them. That is definitely not what the Yankee team does, but their fans just love to do it. Calling other teams chokers and wannabes just because they lost shows no class, sorry just have to call it as I see it. When the Yanks lost to the M's in 95 all the Yanks fans were full of excuses and blame, saying fire this guy and go sign every all-star they could. Notice the M's fans and players don't give excuses, they don't blame anyone, they don't lament what could have been...they just look forward to next year and will give it another shot with a team that very likely will be more talented than this one. One of these next few years they will get it right and deliver the title, of this I have no doubt.

....the Yankee Stadium crowd chanting "Over-rated" and "No Game 6"?


Grow up. It happens in every stadium, with every group of fans, in every sport. You sound like a pompous, holier-than-thou Jesus freak for heaven's sake! It was, if I recall correctly, the White Sox fans who started the "Nah,nah, hey, hey goodbye" thing years ago - which you hear at tons of sporting events - from high school. college. pros - and cross all sports. You hear people chanting stuff all the time: I had my wife and kids to az Yankee game in Philadelphia - they chanted "The Yankees Suck" over and over again. I was at the Mets opening day in 2000, as the Met fans left Shea, they started chanting "The Yankees Suck" and they played the Padres. BTW, it made it extra-sweet to clinch on the Mets hoome field last year.


As far as a superiority complex? Pul-leeze - did you ever go near Boston during the Celtics heyday? the Bulls during MJ & Scptty's run? how bout Montreal during the Canadian run? Hell, the French-Canadiens looked down on AMERICANS for playing hockey. Dallas, 49er, and Packer fans never thought their teams were superior during their runs? Nah. Only Yankee fans. Give it up WB, Stop whining. 116 game season and not making it to the world weries is choking. That's all. Seattle made the big deal of beating the 114 wins the Yankees had in '98. They played full throttle right to the end of the season. Maybe in retrospect, they should've focused on getting ready for the Indians? Instead of worrying about the history books that now lists them as "CHOKERS MAGNIMUS." Imagine worrying about winning regular season games and then letting the Indians take them to 5 games? Naturally this forced the invisible mariners to use Aaron "o-fer-his-life-in-the-postseason" Sele TWICE?? Not even once - but twice?? This is no championship team in Seattle. Its the American League version of the Atlanta Braves - good regular season, apple-up come the the playoffs. This isn't the 'good old days' when the best record gets to the World Series and no one else - this is about getting to the playoffs and being ready for one life and death pressure cooker series after another. It takes fortitude and strong stomachs to handle these - which obviously your invisible mariners can't. This isn't about SUPERIORITY WB, this is about PRIORITIES, which your boys didn't have straight. Even winning all 162 regular season games does nothing for you in the post-season, but guaranty you an extra home game - but only if the series goes to the max. Think about it - because of the 2-3-2 format, the Yankees played 3 home games to the Mariners 2, yet the Mariners had a much better regular season record.


Well, you can take solace in the fact the Cubs once won 116 games and couldn't close the deal. At least you guys beat Cleveland.

Accolades for Yank are deserved. Baseball is screwed up and playing field is way tilted towards Yanks who get the fat revenue from TV. Ok throw in some others who are rich and did a lot worse than the Yanks. Give me 50% more money than Yanks spent on players and I'll put a team together that's world champs. That's all it takes really is money and the Yanks have a hell of a lot more than most.

.....that it's all about money. It has more to do with HOW YOU SPEND IT as well. Other teams with fat bankrolls have done absolute squat. Look at the costly acquistions made by Texas (A-rod) and Boston (Ramirez) and tell me that money wouldn't have been better spent on a stud starter? Its 90% about pitching & defense - and 10% the rest. Nothing more, nothing less. If it wasn't, how could Seattle withstand the losses of A-rod and Jr and get better?


Teams that pitch get there year after year. However the teams that win, have to have a little something else - money doesn't buy you heart and the uncanny ability to make the right plays and get the clutch hits. The Yanks are a lethal combination of pitching, professionalism, and the ability to do it on the world's biggest stage yr after yr.


Having the money to compete helps immensely, but tell that to the Red Sox or Texas Ranger fans - its more about what you do with it. The Yanks have spent a ton of money in development of their farm system and their scouting system - especially in Latin America. Look at their roster - it isn't all about the signing of free agents - mixed in is a lot of home-grown players and players they traded for by USING their farm system to acquire talent. If you took off your anti-Yankee hat and put on that of an investment advisor, you would probably conclude that the farm system and scouting has been a VERY good investment and use of their revenue.

by your own admission it's 'how you use it' but before you can use it, you need to have it. Therefore, having the money is very important and a key element to the Yankee's success. However, you are correct that there is more to it than that.

I said the Yankees got more for their buck than the other big spenders. Talking about Seattle, have them acquire their current team and give them enough money to sign A-Rod, Griffey Jr., Randy Johnson, then sign Mussina, sign Clemens, and maybe acquire Schilling by paying him megabucks and that team will kill the Yankees. I'm no Seattle fan but I give them credit for doing what they did with a lot more limited budget. You talk about Seattle getting better by getting rid of these players as something that proves your point. It was prudent financially and nothing more because they have a smaller budget. They don't have the budget to sign these people and keep a respectable team on the field. The fact that they got better doesn't mean they wouldn't be better still if they could have signed them in fact I guarentee they would have been better. Give Seattle credit that for realizing that they could spend their LIMITED and MUCH SMALLER BUDGET THAN SAY THE YANKEES on a better mix of talent. They can't sign a Mussina because they can't affort too. They can't sign a Clemens because they can't affort too. Give me enough dollars and I'll go sigh all the Yankees away as they become free agents like Rivera. Go tell teams like the Pirates, Twins, & Brewers how fair the system is and they should go out and pay megabucks for free agents. Great the Yankees can spend $109 million for players salaries better than the Red Sox can. So I guess it boils down to who can spend $109 million the wisest. How about teams like the Indians or Seattle who can't possibly spend this much money and make a profit? Look at the Marlins they win the World Series and break up because the owner knew he couldn't make a profit and was losing megabucks without a different stadium. Best solution sell the friggin teams players in a fire sale lock stock and barrell. This charade for baseball will not continue witness events like Cowboys vs. Redskins getting higher ratings than Yankees vs. A's game 5 for example. The fans know that the playing field isn't level and that the teams that can actually come through and win the Series is limited more and more limited each year. Don't expect ratings for the World Series to be very high this year either. Yeah the Yankess win, god they should win with all the money they spend and the system totally slanted in their favor.

....."they should win with all the money they spend and the system totally slanted in their favor"


and


"the Yankees got more for their buck than the other big spenders"


which is it?


Unless baseball goes to a hard cap a' la football, there are going to be teams that have more to spend. There are going to be other that are not WILLING to spend - case in point: the Mets. They could, but they don't. Baseball has way too many teams, evidenced by the lack of quality pitching. I say if you can't compete with the Walmart's of the world, you sell your business and get out. It's going to happen if the economy continues to tank. The Pittsburghs, KC's, and Minnesotas of the world are going to mail it in one of these days - the moment we run out of some rich kids looking for a new toy. When MLB is down to a handful of teams, that's when you'll see a hard cap. BTW, the biggest opponent to any hardcap is the baseball players union. Like you, they want it both ways - they want no big market dominant teams, but aren't willing to take any pay cuts to their outrageous salaries.

You're looking only at the team payrolls and not at the myriad other costs of running a team. Why do you think the Yankees have a monopoly on Cuban players? They're the only franchise that can afford the signing bonuses AND the high risk that comes from signing a guy that is probably lying about his age by four or five years. However, those who say it's ALL about the money fail to recognize the ineptitude of most major league GMs. Some of these guys are borderline retarded. I almost wish the Pirates hadn't fired Cam Bonifay. I'd be curious to see if the guy who thought Derek Bell was worth 6 million a year could have put together a team that won more than 70 games EVER.

....I was thinking of you when I was talking about the money spent on pitching vs another thumper. I believe I'm quoting you correctly when you said: "It's about the pitching, stupid"


A lesson Cleveland hasn't seemed to learn yet either.


Good point about Derek Bell. The Mets couldn't wait to dump his ass.


Regards,

dw

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....."they should win with all the money they spend and the system totally slanted in their favor"


and


"the Yankees got more for their buck than the other big spenders"


which is it?


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Both they're not contradictory. Be proud of your Yanks they spend $109 million the best. They're one of the few that have it. Most don't even have close.


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There are going to be other that are not WILLING to spend - case in point: the Mets.


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The objective for a business is to make a profit. Remember the Marlins? Even though the owner was super rich he realized that it's silly to have a business and not make a profit. That's why teams can't spend the kind of money the Yankees can. They won't make a profit. Say Billy Gates decides to throw a party in Seattle for ten years and blow a billion (expenditures - income), I guarantee he'll have the best team in Seattle.


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Baseball has way too many teams, evidenced by the lack of quality pitching. I say if you can't compete with the Walmart's of the world, you sell your business and get out. It's going to happen if the economy continues to tank. The Pittsburghs, KC's, and Minnesotas of the world are going to mail it in one of these days - the moment we run out of some rich kids looking for a new toy.

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Hey it could happen. Also what is likely to happen is that the game will lose more and more fans and thus a lot less people will care about who wins the Series. I can live with that just fine because the current state of baseball makes want to puke.


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When MLB is down to a handful of teams, that's when you'll see a hard cap.

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That's fine by me.


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BTW, the biggest opponent to any hardcap is the baseball players union. Like you, they want it both ways - they want no big market dominant teams, but aren't willing to take any pay cuts to their outrageous salaries.


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What do I want both ways? Anyway I agree with the other parts but I'm surprised your revelling in the glory of a team that is the poster child of the current system and everything bad about. I mean I can't blame Steinbrenner for what he's done and the problems aren't as solvable as footballs are. Call me a tradionalist by I think the baseball world championship is at least somewhat tainted now.

I guess you miss the whole point after all and I thought you were beginning to understand. Cleveland has a lot less money to spend as does Seattle. I may be wrong but Cleveland and Seattle have about $75 million to spend on salaries the Yankees have $109 million. The difference is around $30 million. That's why the Yankees can sign a Mussina and the Indians and Mariners can't. If either of these two sign Musina they have to give up something while the Yankees don't have to. You're criticism should be directed more at the Red Sox or Dodgers rather than these two teams.

Actually, DW, I don't know who you're quoting. While I think pitching is important you need to hit when it matters, too. It's why Arizona knocked off Atlanta and a huge reason why I'll be loading up on the Yankees in the World Series. Anyone considering betting on the Diamonbacks should ask themselves this question: What is more likely: the Yankees scoring three or more runs per game off of Schilling and Johnson or the Diamondbacks scoring three or more runs per game off of Mussina and Clemens (or Pettitte)? It's close but I'll go with option #1. And inn the games started by Bautista and Lopez (in the Bronx, no less), it isn't even close. I cannot believe NY isn't laying $200.

Lopez won't pitch and Batista has had a better postseason than El Duque so far, his likely opponent. Games with Anderson and Batista are not walkover games by any means, they still have to go out and win those.


As for the salaries, it is supposed to get closer next season. The M's on the additional revenue they will get from the success fo this season, probably will boost their payroll. They will spend a lot of money in keeping Boone around and probably fork out some bucks for a LF, possibly even going big money and signing Gonzalez. If not him they are looking at finally getting their hands on Shannon Stewart, by trading away some of their overloaded pitching staff. No matter what, they say they will come close to break even this year and with the extra attendance and higher TV contracts they could easily spare another $20 million in the quest to win a title. Further they think if they were to go to Japan and play 3 or 4 exhibition games against Japanese teams next spring, they could make an amount of money that would even the Yankees heads spin. They haven't said if they will do it, but the money they are talking about could almost pay for Boone's salary, money that they wouldn't have to split with other teams.

WB-While the Lopez and Bautista games are by no means gimmies, I can't see either of those guys getting past the sixth inning. That gives NY at least three innings to feast on the Arizona pen. And if Hernandez is shaky or downright awful, the Yankee pen can put together a very solid 5 or 6 innings, in my opinion (Pettitte and Mussina figure to allow Torre to rest Mendoza).


And I'm still not too sure about Schilling pitching three games. Win or lose, he's going to have to bust his ass to get through eight innings against a disciplined Yankee lineup.

....Urban 33,one of the world's biggest Indian fans. My bad.


Good post though

You're right. Baseball is total, absolute garbage.


Gee, what a surprise the team with the biggest payroll is gonna win again.


And they wonder why that pathetic Washington-Dallas MNF game had higher national ratings than the deciding game of the Yanks-Oakland series.