Tips for Turbos please.

[partygirluk]

I realise there have been a few threads about this already, but I'd appreciate any new thoughts out there. How do you play with 5 minute blind level. I am mostly thinking about in a satellite situation, but normal MTT thoughts are appreciated. Ilya posted a hand a few weeks ago when he had 1 BB and folded QQ UTG because his table was going to break up, and it got me thinking about how much different the Turbo strategy is to normal.

[krazyace5]

Heres my tip, don't play them.

[ClaytonN]

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don't play them.

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Too much luck involved.

If you consider yourself a good player, you're giving up EV by playing in turbos.

[grandgnu]

I agree with the other posters, avoid these like the plague. Hell, I played in a weekly 250-player event at Foxwoods Casino and the betting structure was pretty agressive (down to about 34 players and 30 get paid). I was sitting on 13K at my table, which was one of the larger stacks, and antes were 300 with blinds of 1000/2000 and somewhere around 8-10 players at my table.

That means there was lots of money in the pot pre-flop and a standard 3x the BB raise would cost me half my stack, which was top 2 or 3 at the table for total chips. And this was with 20 minute levels.

I try to run my home games so that everyone has some room to manuever, instead of it just being an all-in fest.

[Awesemo]

I'd say that you should play basically the same way that you would play a normal touranment. Be aware of the way the blinds increase but make your moves based mostly on the current blinds/position. As you pointed out, it can be good to fold +chip ev hands if you either are going to be in the money or if your table is going to break up. I do think that these tournaments are profitable. They take much less time than a normal multi which makes for a decent hourly rate.

[MicroBob]

I think they are profitable as well.
Generally....the tight-wads who actually have a clue how to play MTT's are more likely to avoid them....so that's a good reason to learn them on it's own.

The sucky-ness ratio of the type of players who gravitate towards the turbos is higher.

Obviously there is some significant luck involved, but I think solid play certainly should make them beatable.

The strategy can really get wacky...especially around the bubble and in a satellite (like the Stars re-buy EPT and WPT sat's for example).


You can choose not to play them if you like...but I'm guessing they could be extremely profitable for the dedicated 'turbo specialist'.

Just like SNG's....if Party changed their blind structure to increase every 5 hands (instead of every 10 hands) you still need to play solidly to win.
Pushing all-in with K3o remains a crappy move whether it's a fast or slow tourney...but there are more players willing to get maniac-crazy with their K3o's in turbos.


BTW - if you have any intention of playing live tourneys I think the online-turbos could be good experience. the live SAT's and some other cheaper tourneys can have some really rapidly moving blind-structures.


To answer the original question: Sorry. I can't. I have the same questions as you. I think you should be more likely to make slightly more marginal calls early on since you obviously don't have forever to wait for better hands. But this is just my hunch.
I've also sat back and waited while everyone else was going crazy in an all-in fest in the opening rounds.

I don't play too many turbo's currently (but that may change) and many of those that I do are the Stars-rebuys...and in re-buys it can be beneficial to be a smidgen looser in the early going anyway regardless of whether or not it's a turbo.

I'm still working on it and I think that experience and a little thought about how these things work can yield advantages.


If others have ideas on how one should adjust their play with a faster blind-structure I am DEFINITELY all ears.

[Graham]

turbo sng's are profitable. I made close to1k/wk off em since last May. 55's and 109's. There are plenty of loose aggro players around and you just gotta be prepared to step on mines to get to teh riches. Variance goes up for your results but you plough through more of them to compensate for that.

[ilya]

I'm only starting to succeed at these -- just made my first final table tonight. But I guess I have a couple comments.

-- If the next set of blinds will put you all-in, and most of the players in the tournament/at your table have you covered, immediately begin stalling. It doesn't matter if you're 50 or 500 from the money; when you have that few chips relative to blinds & opponents, you gain much more from having to survive fewer blinds than you do from seeing a couple more hands. Especially since you'll be folding those hands anyway.

The corollary to this point is that you should fold EVERYTHING, including AA, if your stack is very small in relation to blinds & opponents.

People will flame you horribly for stalling before everyone else starts doing it; ignore them.

-- If you DO have some chips, play agressively. It may even be worth it to make some -EV plays in the early/mid game if doing so will give you a chance at becoming boss stack. This is because the advantage of having the biggest stack at the table is extra-large in speeds: no one will be able to bust you when the blinds put you all-in, and you'll get your blind back more often since people will be very wary of calling without a premium hand.

-- Always be aware of when your table is breaking. Use your time bank strategically to avoid paying the blinds before the table breaks.

-- Remember that the action goes to hand-for-hand when it's down to 10 before the money, and also when it's down to 40 (or perhaps fewer, depending on field size -- you might want to check)...so, make sure to use your time bank before it becomes useless, and make sure not to waste it when you'll have to pay the blinds anyway b/c of hand-for-hand.

p.s. The blinds go up every 3 minutes, not 5.

[ilya]

make sure to win when the blinds put you all-in.

[partygirluk]

On Stars the blinds go up every 5 minutes.

To some of the earlier replies, whilst ROI will certainly be lower than for a normal tournament, this is offset by hourly rate considerations. Also, with 5 minute blinds you normally have some play for the first 40 minutes or so (half the tourney in a satellite situation), so you can pick a few spots. Also, the strategy is so strange for turbo satellites, that mastery of it gives you a big advantage.

[grandgnu]

Sorry folks, but I still feel these turbo events rely more on luck than on a players skill. There's little room to manuever and make any significant plays when everything goes by 3-4x faster than a standard online tournament (which already goes faster than a brick & mortar tournament because it's all electronic)

Have fun with them and good luck, maybe you can make some money. I'll stick with my slow poker MTT's.

[IgorSmiles]

Ilya, help me out, because I dont get the thinking here. You are going to be all in on your next set of blinds, so you willingly fold A/A when you're still 500 from the money and may very well wind up all in w/4/9 on your next BB?

grandgnu, sounds like Foxwoods has really changed the structure of the Thursday tournys for the worse. I used to play in those sometimes but now it doesnt sound worth the trip.

[schwza]

stalling is incredibly lame.

i consider it only a hair less lame than collusion.

[grandgnu]

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Ilya, help me out, because I dont get the thinking here. You are going to be all in on your next set of blinds, so you willingly fold A/A when you're still 500 from the money and may very well wind up all in w/4/9 on your next BB?

grandgnu, sounds like Foxwoods has really changed the structure of the Thursday tournys for the worse. I used to play in those sometimes but now it doesnt sound worth the trip.

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Well, there are a LOT of really bad, loose agressive types. So it's easy to bust them when you get the right hand. So many players see all the bluffing and "action" hands on TV, and think they can play every hand like that.

The tourney started at 10am and I busted out between 2-3 pm, finishing just in the money. It was a good time, but yeah, with Foxwoods we poker players are just a necessary evil. They're making 20 bucks in entry fees off of each player, when they stand to make a hell of a lot more if you play their rigged table games or slots. At least they put up with us, Mohegan doesn't even have a poker room from what I heard!

[ilya]

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Ilya, help me out, because I dont get the thinking here. You are going to be all in on your next set of blinds, so you willingly fold A/A when you're still 500 from the money and may very well wind up all in w/4/9 on your next BB?

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yes (if your stack is small enough that doubling or tripling through will still put you all-in on the next BB, with a shorter stack than most of the table)

[MWC]

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stalling is incredibly lame.

i consider it only a hair less lame than collusion.

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The Party Speed tourneys emphasize some tactics differently than the usual MTT and may not appeal to everyone. If by "stalling is incredibly lame" you mean you avoid these tourneys because of the role stalling plays, that's fine, but if you're in one and don't stall in the appropriate places, you're costing yourself money.

[The T.A.]

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don't play them.

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Too much luck involved.

If you consider yourself a good player, you're giving up EV by playing in turbos.

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Agreed. Turbos are really only worth playing if you're up for a laugh.

They can be fun, but I don't see how you can profit from them.

[grandgnu]

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Ilya, help me out, because I dont get the thinking here. You are going to be all in on your next set of blinds, so you willingly fold A/A when you're still 500 from the money and may very well wind up all in w/4/9 on your next BB?

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yes (if your stack is small enough that doubling or tripling through will still put you all-in on the next BB, with a shorter stack than most of the table)

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I still can't see folding THE absolute best starting hand when you're short-stacked and have an opportunity to double or triple through. Sure, it may still only give you enough chips to be all-in on the next blind, but that's additional chips you can then (hopefully) double or triple through.

If you're so far out from the money, you have nothing to lose at this point and must take a chance at winning some chips. I personally think you'd have to be smoking crack to dump A/A pre-flop when short-stacked, in ANY tourney, turbo or not.

[ilya]

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Ilya, help me out, because I dont get the thinking here. You are going to be all in on your next set of blinds, so you willingly fold A/A when you're still 500 from the money and may very well wind up all in w/4/9 on your next BB?

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yes (if your stack is small enough that doubling or tripling through will still put you all-in on the next BB, with a shorter stack than most of the table)

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I still can't see folding THE absolute best starting hand when you're short-stacked and have an opportunity to double or triple through. Sure, it may still only give you enough chips to be all-in on the next blind, but that's additional chips you can then (hopefully) double or triple through.

If you're so far out from the money, you have nothing to lose at this point and must take a chance at winning some chips. I personally think you'd have to be smoking crack to dump A/A pre-flop when short-stacked, in ANY tourney, turbo or not.

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You're just thinking of a bigger short stack than I am. I'm talking about a miniscule stack. Like, 50 chips.

[kurosh]

I've done extremely well in 6-handed turbos.

[J-Lo]

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I've done extremely well in 6-handed turbos.

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Sorry i gotta do this

THIS IS THE MULTI TABLE FORUM!! We are talking about turbo multi table tourneys... SNG turbos are profitable, but strategies are very different... i wanna hear from others and their thoughts on turbo MTT...

And to the people saying, "it's all a crapshoot"-- i'm sure that's what people said about Party's SNG's but strategies have been developed and perfected to give a resaonable edge to against those who do not understand the strategy... Now we are looking at MTT-turbos, the strategy may seem a bit unorthodox, but folding AA when your stack is only 1/10th of a BB is sound strategy... because turbos aren't as much about stack sizes or cards as they are about survival and avoiding the blinds--- now we've developed a psuedo strategy, we need to develop the tactics used to apply this strategy..