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View Full Version : Should i be thinking about folding this hand?


Bwm77
01-09-2005, 01:51 AM
.50/1 no-limit Pacific Poker, 7 handed

UTG($168) limps
2 players fold
Hero($127) Raise in cut off to $5 w/Qh Qs
Button folds, SB($23), BB($100), and UTG call

Flop: 2d 5d 3c
SB: bets 12
BB: calls
UTG: calls
Hero: Raises to $40
SB: calls for $6
BB: calls
UTG: Moves all-in

I call (not exactly happy to be getting my money in here)
BB Calls (now i really don't like my hand)
Turn: 8d
River: Ks


My question is how seriously should i have been thinking about folding on the flop?

TheWorstPlayer
01-09-2005, 02:06 AM
Yes, you should not only be thinking about folding this hand, you should be folding this hand. Did you try to put them on a hand? Which hands did you think you were against that you thought you were ahead of?

Kaz The Original
01-09-2005, 02:08 AM
When BB pushes you are losing. And losing seriously.

Bwm77
01-09-2005, 02:23 AM
In the 18 seconds that Pacific Poker gives you i thought AA seemed like a possability (limp UTG seemed fishy). But i really though that AA would Have raised the $12 flop bet to push out draws....Why give me the oportunity to draw cheap.
So the 2 flat calls seemed alot like draws to me.
After my raise It seemed like i was commited to the hand so why give me the chance to get away from it if the diamond draw gets there?
I also thought there was a real chance that both UTG and BB might be on the same draw, giving them less outs.

SB and BB both mucked w/out showing
UTG shows 4c 5c
QQ stands up

TheWorstPlayer
01-09-2005, 02:47 AM
Congratulations. You are playing against bad players, so you can afford to make bad plays and still win. I still believe your play was bad, though.

soah
01-09-2005, 03:10 AM
You got all your money into the pot with an EV of .51 ... talk about pushing thin edges. I hope that 1% advantage is enough to overcome the times that you are drawing to two outs. =/ When UTG plays like that he either has you crushed or he has a monster draw. Classic case of either being a small favorite or a huge underdog. Due to the size of the pot you may have to call against some of your fishier/LAGier opponents. But to always look for what hands you can beat and then put (both?!) your opponents on it will cost you plenty in the grand scheme of things.

Kaz The Original
01-09-2005, 03:11 AM
UTG played fine.

TheWorstPlayer
01-09-2005, 03:37 AM
What hands do you put the blinds on so that they also played it well? And without them in there, the pot is significantly smaller and the OP's play is significantly worse. Their bad play cushioned his.

mr pink
01-09-2005, 03:44 AM
what were you putting UTG on when he smooth called the $12 from the small blind on the flop, then pushed all in after your $40.00 flop raise?

peace - jeff

Bwm77
01-09-2005, 04:28 AM
The SB, and UTG just calling the $12 on the flop looked alot like draws. Flush draw, or St8 draw. Like i said, if either one had a hand that had me beat, Set, AA, KK, wouldn't that board scare them enough to raise the flop.

When the BB just calls the $40 i feel there is no way his hand is made.

Once i raised it looked like i was commited to the pot so why give me the chance to get away from it if the flush gets there on the turn.

So i figured they were on flush and or st8 draws. Don't get me wrong, i did think about folding, but only for like a second. I didn't realize you guys would think it was such an easy fold. And if it is what hands would you put them on where i would be a dog?

soah
01-09-2005, 05:01 AM
UTG will have 55, 33, 22 quite often. With all that action he'd have to be absolutely terrible to call/reraise on the flop with something like 88. He's either decided that the pot is big enough that it's time to stop slowplaying, or he has some sort of big draw that doesn't mind putting all of the money in the pot. You'll rarely be a huge favorite when the money goes in here. However, once you've decided to raise the flop you are getting close to the point where you are committed to seeing the hand to showdown. I think the decisions is closer than what others are making it out to be unless you have a very good read on UTG that tells you he would only do this if he had you crushed. Many low-stakes/inexperienced players would overvalue something like 44 on this flop.