Will the Astros sign Beltran? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Hack

01-08-2005, 08:57 PM

I think the Astros will indeed sign him.

The Yankees decided not to pursue him, and that's good.

He's not worth 17 million dollars a year. He doesn't even hit .270 a year. We don't need an All-Star at every position. Let the Astros waste more of their money on him, or the Mets.

The Yankees are fine with having a gold glover like Bernie in CF.

We already will have an awesome lineup with Jeter, Womack, Rodriguez, Tino, Matsui, Williams, Sheffield, Posada, and Giambi.

And our starting rotation will be the best in all of baseball, bar none:

Starter 1: Big Unit
Starter 2: Moose
Starter 3: Pavano
Starter 4: Brown
Starter 5: Wright

Not to mention our bullpen:

Lefty specialist: Stanton(big improvement over Heredia)

Setup men:
Quantrill
Karsay
F-Rod

Eighth inning closer:
Gordon

Closer:
Rivera

Yes, the Yankees will win the World Series this year. You can bank on it.

[censored]

01-08-2005, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts? Midnight is the deadline. Not sure in what timezone...

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have said yes a few days ago but I think in the end money talks and Beltran is a Met.

Hack

01-08-2005, 09:03 PM

The Mets need pitching.

Theirs sux.

Oh yah, and so does their offense.

If they are going to shell out big bucks for Delgado they are going to be disappointed.

[censored]

01-08-2005, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If they are going to shell out big bucks for Delgado they are going to be disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The dude seems like he can mash to me.

pudley4

01-08-2005, 09:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The Yankees are fine with having a gold glover like Bernie in CF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie couldn't outrun Christopher Reeve last year.

Gatts

01-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Delgado's worth it. Beltran is worth more than Delgado, but not to the Mets, since Beltran will displace Mike Cameron.

Gatts

01-08-2005, 09:17 PM

Too true, Bernie's got zero defensive value and should be a DH.

jpg777

01-08-2005, 09:27 PM

The Yankees can kiss my ass, and the Mets suck!!!!

oh yeah, Beltran = 2005 Houston Astro.

Lazymeatball

01-08-2005, 09:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]

We already will have an awesome lineup with Jeter, Womack, Rodriguez, Tino, Matsui, Williams, Sheffield, Posada, and Giambi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Womack really adding to this awesome lineup? I am of the understanding that he blows. Discuss

Gatts

01-08-2005, 09:41 PM

He does. So does Tino.

Hack

01-08-2005, 09:57 PM

He batted .309 last year. And he can steal bases.

Hack

01-08-2005, 09:58 PM

So what. Our weakness isn't in CF. It was pitching. And we fixed it.

Yanks will win the WS. It's almost a guarantee.

DesertCat

01-08-2005, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He batted .309 last year. And he can steal bases.

[/ QUOTE ]

His OBP was .349, horrible for a guy hitting .307 with no power. He can steal bases, that's all that might save him from being the worst infielder of the decade. He makes Cairo look like an all-star. Here is his OPS+ numbers the last few years.

2004 - 93
2003 - 40(!)
2002 - 73
2001 - 65
2000 - 72

Clearly 2004 was a fluke, esp since he's in his decline years. He's probably likely to be around 70 this year.

DesertCat

01-08-2005, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bernie couldn't outrun Christopher Reeve last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

The entire Yankee defense looks to be awful this year. Centerfield won't be the only disaster (left field, right field, 2nd, shortstop, first) The only good defensive player they have is A-Rod (maybe Posada). Looks like the Big Unit might be smashing some watercoolers in the dugout. Fortunately they'll make it up to him in the other halfs of innings by leading the league in scoring...

jpg777

01-08-2005, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yanks will win the WS. It's almost a guarantee.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Yanks will NOT win the WS. This I guarantee.

Hack

01-08-2005, 10:55 PM

Hello fellow upstate NYer.

Who will win it then?

Yanks have the best rotation and best offense.

jpg777

01-08-2005, 11:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who will win it then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll let you know by April 1st.

Hack

01-08-2005, 11:35 PM

How about I just give you till Christmas and you tell me then? That should make it easier for you.

istewart

01-08-2005, 11:49 PM

Beltran's offensive value would've made the Yankees a shoe-in for World Series berth IMHO but I'm not sure he's worth it in the LR. Bernie is killing us though. The Yankees strength in the championship era was the everyday guys that became New York legends; Brosius, Martinez, Posada, etc. Another offensive star when the pitching has just been rebuilt isn't necessarily what we need. Although BROWN BETTER NEVER PICK UP A BALL AGAIN.

Hack

01-09-2005, 12:15 AM

Bernie was a big part of those championships you know.

In 1998 he hit .339, in 1999 he hit .342, and in 2000 he hit .307. You're acting like he's some run-of-the-mill schmuck. He's not. He's one of the greatest Yankees of all time.

His lifetime batting average is .301
He has Hall of Fame stats.

263 HR is low but
2097 hits and 36 years old.

.990 fielding percentage
4 consecutive Gold Gloves
5 time all star

HOF Standards: Batting - 46.4 (94) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 140.0 (85) (Likely HOFer > 100)

The guy only had 1 error last year in center field. He's a fine center fielder.

Gatts

01-09-2005, 01:07 AM

No one's ever a shoe-in for the WS. It's a long season, a lot can happen. And then you get to the playoffs... that's even more unpredictable.

[censored]

01-09-2005, 01:27 AM

NO (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1962630)

istewart

01-09-2005, 01:56 AM

Hack I completely agree with you about Williams, I'm just saying that he is not the Gold Glove fielder he was during the championship era. That doesn't mean he's useless or awful, it's just a comment on his aging.

On another note, sure anything can happen during the long season, but for the Yankees the regular season is about the most pointless thing there is. Nothing could happen to them to prevent them from making the playoffs, so it's best to build them as a team suited for that. Last year the offense wasn't the problem, as we know, although the late ALCS team-wide slump sucked.

DesertCat

01-09-2005, 02:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The guy only had 1 error last year in center field. He's a fine center fielder.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't make errors when you can't get to balls. That's the criticism of Bernie, that he no longer has any range. He was great during his peak years but they are long gone, and he's unlikely to be in the HOF because of that.

Bernie OPS+
1995 130
1996 130
1997 148
1998 159
1999 157
2000 136
2001 140
2002 143
2003 109
2004 110

He can no longer hit well enough to even be a good DH...

Gatts

01-09-2005, 02:38 AM

There's really not much difference in a constructing a playoff team and constructing a regular season team.

BottlesOf

01-09-2005, 03:04 PM

Hey, it's a step....

Beltran a Met basically (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/09/sports1353EST0285.DTL)

DontRaisePlz

01-09-2005, 03:13 PM

Your rotation looks good on paper..

... if the year was 1997.

Moose has a 4.59 ERA last year and he's 36. Pavano's had one great (contract) year, he's going to the AL for the first time, moving out of cozy Pro Player stadium. Jaret Wright? Cmon, he's had one good year and it was in the NL with Atlanta. He's going to go Chris Hammond in New York. Also, Mel Stottlemeyer is a terrible pitching coach. Look what happened with Weaver, and even Clemens, after they moved out of New York. Vazquez collapsing last year doesn't speak well either.

As a Dodger fan, I won't even utter the other guy's name, his numbers were pretty mediocre last year anyway.

Your rotation has an ace, a #2 whose liable of disappointment, and 3 overpaid aging veterans who are #3 calibur. The Cubs have a better rotation.

nolanfan34

01-09-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, it's a step....

Beltran a Met basically (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/01/09/sports1353EST0285.DTL)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mets and Jets? You and stheif really are two peas in a pod, aren't you.

Clarkmeister

01-09-2005, 04:26 PM

It's safe to say Beltran was way overpaid considering he will make more than Albert each year. ROFL what suckers the Mets are.

nolanfan34

01-09-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's safe to say Beltran was way overpaid considering he will make more than Albert each year. ROFL what suckers the Mets are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. What's even funnier is that they're paying some of those dollars for his defense, when they already have one of the best defensive CF in the game. Maybe they're going to trade Cameron.

I have to say, given the decisions the Mets make, I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that the 2000 World Series ever happened. How the hell did they even make it there?

istewart

01-09-2005, 04:57 PM

They had a pretty sweet team in the Subway Series year. Good pitching and one of the best defensive infields in quite awhile. The Yankees just took it to 'em though.

BottlesOf

01-09-2005, 05:18 PM

Pedro, Glavine, Benson, Trachsel, Zambrano.

That's pretty good. Now we just need a bullpen.

Don't worry about our deep pockets.

Gatts

01-09-2005, 05:22 PM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
It's safe to say Beltran was way overpaid considering he will make more than Albert each year. ROFL what suckers the Mets are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, he's overpaid, but Albert's salary is of no comparison, considering his salary is lower due to the arbitration system.

jpg777

01-09-2005, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about I just give you till Christmas and you tell me then? That should make it easier for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The f'n season doesn't start until April so STFU. However, the Yankees will not win the WS.

The Mets will still suck too.

Aceshigh7

01-09-2005, 06:01 PM

I guess it was all about the money and not about winning like you said Carlos. Even though the Astros were offering you just about the same, maybe even more when you factor in state income tax and cost of living.

Enjoy missing the playoffs for the next several years. Oh yea, count on your offensive numbers going down playing in that piece of [censored] Shea.

I hope Beltran gets a career ending injury.

[censored]

01-09-2005, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How about I just give you till Christmas and you tell me then? That should make it easier for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The f'n season doesn't start until April so STFU. However, the Yankees will not win the WS.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is weak. You can't say who will win but you are certain that one of the top 4 teams in the league (it's a fact deal with it) will not win.

What ever man. You are coming across as a joke.

BottlesOf

01-09-2005, 06:04 PM

Hahaha, this from the guy who thinks Dutch Boys is the epitome of a professional poker player.

Good luck with allll THAT!

Aceshigh7

01-09-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hahaha, this from the guy who thinks Dutch Boys is the epitome of a professional poker player.

Good luck with allll THAT!

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell are you talking about? I have never in my life mentioned Dutch Boyd. Go smoke some more dope man.

BottlesOf

01-09-2005, 06:36 PM

No, not explicitly. But, you basically lost all credibility on this site with this gem. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1497319&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

sfer

01-09-2005, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mets and Jets? You and stheif really are two peas in a pod, aren't you.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's cute when they hold hands and affectionately call each other douchebag.

BottlesOf

01-09-2005, 06:42 PM

You wanna get pwned don't you....don't you?

jpg777

01-09-2005, 06:43 PM

It seems to me that it's alot easier to guarantee 1 team that will not win the WS, than it is to guarantee the 1 team that will.

sfer

01-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Take a number.

Aceshigh7

01-09-2005, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, not explicitly. But, you basically lost all credibility on this site with this gem. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1497319&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

You think I care what you idiots think of me? Professional poker players! HA! If you fools love the term so much fine. Whatever helps your egos.

DesertCat

01-09-2005, 07:54 PM

Beltran, Kent, Miller - gone...
Clemens - retired...
Bags, Biggio - should be retired...
Pettite, Berkman - recovering from major surgery.

Enjoy your season, aces...

Aceshigh7

01-09-2005, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Beltran, Kent, Miller - gone...
Clemens - retired...
Bags, Biggio - should be retired...
Pettite, Berkman - recovering from major surgery.

Enjoy your season, aces...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, you make some good points, however I think Clemens will be back, he has some unfinished business. The Stros might work a trade for Jose Cruz Jr to fill an outfield spot, maybe sign Hideo Nomo or Pedro Astacio as our 5th starter, find some middle relief help, maybe even make a run at Magglio Ordonez. Yes, Beltran screwed us by waiting till the last minute, but Drayton has shown he is capable of getting some huge deals done. He won't let us down.

The Stros will be in the playoffs again this year while Beltran and the Mets will be a .500 ballclub.

Clarkmeister

01-09-2005, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's safe to say Beltran was way overpaid considering he will make more than Albert each year. ROFL what suckers the Mets are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, he's overpaid, but Albert's salary is of no comparison, considering his salary is lower due to the arbitration system.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't. True, he wasn't a free agent, but he negotiated the deal as if he were. He even repeatedly said he was giving no discount to the Cards.

Gatts

01-10-2005, 12:10 AM

Do you honestly believe if Albert was a free agent, he wouldn't be getting at least 17 mil/year?

His salary is incomparable because there were no other bidders, and also because the market is batshit insane this year.

Hack

01-10-2005, 02:52 PM

Brownie is a good pitcher when he's healthy. You're obviously not much of a Dodger fan.

In 2003 Brown had some injuries but his era was like 2.43 or something.