Something funny happened on the way to showdown

[slavic]

20/40 live 9 handed. Our Mighty Tighty Whitey table has just started to break up, and new blood is filtering in. Since we are concerned with the river we skip ahead.

The Board is J /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Yes they came in that order. 4 players left 19BB in the pot and you hold 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

The SB checks, you check, the EP player bets and you firmly have him on 2 pair or a small set, 2 pair is more consistent with his play. LP player calls, he has a big overpair, but understands he is likely beat, he seems to have a tough time giving up however. Unexpectedly, the SB raises, he has just called all bets previous, you figured he was drawing, but lord knows to what. You have a strong suspision that he hasn't really thought about the other hands involved.

So raise and take the one bet(possibly more), or try for overcalls?

[Manzanita]

slavic,

It seems to me that raising has the potential to pick up more bets than calling in this situation. Just calling will probably only net you 1 more bet (from EP); I can't see LP calling after the SB check-raises and you call 2 cold. If you 3-bet, the SB is surely going to at least call and you may pick up 2 additional bets if EP decides to hang in there.

-- Manzanita

[Ulysses]

Clear 3-bet.

[elindauer]

Hi slavic,

Reraise, not close. You've only identified one player at the table who may fold to reraise but call a raise. The other two will likely pay you off, and you might even get it capped by someone with a set. Don't get fancy here.

If both the better and the caller might fold, and you had, say, a set, then calling would be in consideration. Since you have the nuts though, it must be much clearer that going for overcalls is the way to go before you can forego the raise.

-Eric

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
The other two will likely pay you off, and you might even get it capped by someone with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was specifically thinking that not giving a hand like Ad5d the chance to reraise is tragic.

[SA125]

Get more money in.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other two will likely pay you off, and you might even get it capped by someone with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was specifically thinking that not giving a hand like Ad5d the chance to reraise is tragic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I so rarely see a 4 bet from a regular on the river I completely left that idea out. I had an unknown, why not.

For the record I three bet and was called in 2 places. 2 pair folded, the pair of aces called. and so did A5o with the A of Diamonds.

[mike l.]

"Get more money in."

right. but his question was HOW can he get the most money in. and i dont think it's clearly a reraise. id like to know el diablo's reasoning.

[TStoneMBD]

the guy with the overpair would have to be a fool to call the raise on the river with 4 people in the pot. if you call you may take a bet from utg. if you raise you get at least 1 bet from sb. CLEAR raise.

[BarronVangorToth]

3-bet ahoy -- I can't see a logical conclusion where this isn't the +EV play over time.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[mike l.]

"if you raise you get at least 1 bet from sb."

im not so sure sb doesnt have 65 as well.

[TStoneMBD]

ok lets assume the overpair folds 100% of the time and that the SB has 65 50% of the time and A4 50% of the time. (clearly SB will have a set or 2 pair far more often but ill entertain you.) lets then assume for your benefit that utg also folds if you 3bet but calls if you just call. if you just call you gain 1 bet from utg. if you reraise you lose utg, sb with 4bet you with either of his 2 straights. you gain 1 more bet when he has A4 and gain 0 bets when he has 56. do you really think this situation comes up often enough to warrant calling? i think not.

[mike l.]

"do you really think this situation comes up often enough to warrant calling?"

ok im sold. reraise.