I'll never understand them

[theredpill]

Ok. I got $30 left in my party account from $600 so I thought I'd blow the rest in the NL 6 max game and maybe some chance I'd win for a change. Nope. What do these players have ? See if you can put them on a hand and then tell me whether my fold was right.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($17.7)
MP ($30.75)
Button ($19.9)
SB ($68.65)
Hero ($34.1)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($8) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $15.7 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, SB calls $12.70, Hero folds.

Turn: ($49.40) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($49.40) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $49.40

I probably gave it away already. All I can say is WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF

[admo415]

why would you fold for only 6 more dollars?
I dunno, something good prob from SB since min raise on flop and some kind of draw for the other

[theredpill]

Well , I was thinking that someone had AA or KK with all the raising preflop. I didn't know they were that dumb.

If you knew what just happened to me earlier, you'd know why I folded Q Q right there. In my mind, someone always has KK or A A.
summary here in white
<font color="white">
** Summary **
Main Pot: $47.4 | | Rake: $2
Board: [ 4h 6c 9c Qh 5d ]
miamipksguy balance $47.4, bet $17.7, collected $47.4, net +$29.7 [ Ad 9h ] [ a pair of nines -- Ad,Qh,9h,9c,6c ]
solidcal balance $30.75, didn't bet (folded)
SENATOBIA balance $25, sits out
blinden84 balance $17.9, lost $2 (folded)
JCUZO343 balance $50.95, lost $17.7 [ Kc Ac ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Kc,Qh,9c,6c ]
Hero balance $22.1, lost $12 (folded)
</font>
That one guy who reraised all-in got rewarded for his retarded play. My thinking was ....HOly mother of god...he just saw me reraised to $10 and he thinks his pair of 9's are good. That is why I folded.

Today, I had A K preflop and I raised to $4. Guy reraises to $10 putting me all-in and I call to find him with A A. Same scenario here. He just saw me raise to $10. He must have KK or AA . Same [censored] . Now who is going to tell me differently???? ha !! you can't.

Got some of it back on this hand. I played it wrong. I played it completely wrong but I ended up making a whole lot more money off it then I ever thought possible.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($36.5)
SB ($19.5)
BB ($64.35)
Hero ($28.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($2) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4, Button folds, SB folds.

River: ($10) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $9</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24.05 (All-In)</font>, BB calls $15.05.

Final Pot: $58.10

YOu got it !! Call when you know your beat and fold when you know you have the best hand . My new system and a damn good one.

** Summary **
Main Pot: $56.1 | | Rake: $2
Board: [ As 3d 5h 4d Ac ]
button balance $36, lost $0.5 (folded)
SB balance $19, lost $0.5 (folded)
BB balance $35.8, lost $28.55 [ 2s 6h ] [ a straight, two to six -- 6h,5h,4d,3d,2s ]
Hero balance $56.1, bet $28.55, collected $56.1, net +$27.55 [ Ad 5d ] [ a full house, Aces full of fives -- Ad,As,Ac,5d,5h ]

Ok, looking at these two hands. Why am I loser on Party Poker's NL tables ? I can handle it. I've already lost $600 this month. Thanks.

[istewart]

I can't understand checking top two pair on that vulnerable board. Sure, you rivered the boat, but you were drawing slim after he turned the nut straight. That 4 would've terrified me.

[admo415]

Bet the flop on the second one, why give him the free card for his gutshot (it worked out in the end for you though)

For the first hand, you still should have called the extra $6 after, you are probably ahead more often than you are behind, plus it is such a small portion of the pot that it screams call anyways.

I used to be like you, but then I talked to a friend who seems to do pretty well...he said I needed to tighten up and play more aggressive. Tight aggressive, you are probably loose passive (just from these two hand samples)

Perfect example is your second hand, I might not play that from UTG, bad position, now, but if I did, and the flop came like that, I would bet at it hard, what other flop could you want when you called...

Also do some bonus whoring to build a bankroll to go through the times that the other person has AA...

try www.bonuswhores.com (http://www.bonuswhores.com)

[theredpill]

I pretty much knew I was beat there. I called to just see if I can save myself on the river. I was definitely going to fold to a big bet on the river. That mentality is probably why I am loser right now.

[Wayfare]

Dude, STOP FOLDING OVERPAIRS. (FOR $6 GETTING LIKE 10-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

STOP SLOW PLAYING

CHRIST

[theredpill]

I call the $6 and someone flips over KK and you all would say....well....jesus....look at all the action on the flop. Someone would say, " damn, dude, flop is 9 XX and someone goes all-in and you think QQ is the best hand. Read a book you loser. "

[admo415]

You cant play like that...try to think about it this way

Why did you raise $10 on the flop?
you knew there was a short stack behind you right, so he can't just call away over 2/3 his stack, he is either going all-in or folding, the SB didn't push before you to try to get heads up bc he wanted you to call to give him some odds on his draw...therefore you should have called, the SB would have probably checked to you on the turn and you coulda pushed at him

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
I call the $6 and someone flips over KK and you all would say....well....jesus....look at all the action on the flop. Someone would say, " damn, dude, flop is 9 XX and someone goes all-in and you think QQ is the best hand. Read a book you loser. "

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont need to think you have the best hand to call bets on the flop, especially when people are getting close to allin.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, STOP FOLDING OVERPAIRS. (FOR $6 GETTING LIKE 10-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

STOP SLOW PLAYING

CHRIST

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, we're telling him to post hands so we can help and he's doing it, don't yell at him.

anyway redpill, he's screaming pretty good advice.

[soah]

You're getting 10:1 to call when you have a made hand plus two outs to make the nuts with two cards to come. That should NEVER be folded.

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 4s 9c 6c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Qc 121 12.22 869 87.78 0 0.00 0.122
9s 9h 869 87.78 121 12.22 0 0.00 0.878

The other hand was played nearly as bad... open-limping with an ace in a four-handed game, slowplaying a strong but potentially vulnerable hand on the flop, and calling an overbet from the bb with four to a straight on the board.... you will not win money playing like this.

[EliteNinja]

What happened between your $600 bankroll and your $30 roll?

[BigF]

Uh...no, you are wrong again dude. If you paid attention, you woulda noticed we usually say "I think you are behind but you should call because the pot is laying you 1 to 10 odds".

What does that mean? Given all that action on the flop and he doesn't respect your big reraise, it's likely you are behind. Say you are behind 8 out of 10 times and you call every time for 10 times, you will end up with ...... PROFIT!!!! About $72!!! REAL MONEY!!!!

Why would there be 2 times where you are actually ahead you ask? Please refer to your own post.

[admo415]

Didnt you post a while back that you were killing this game, doubling up every time?

Here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ssplnlpoker&amp;Number=144 7073&amp;Forum=,,,All_Forums,,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=2&amp;Li mit=25&amp;Main=1447073&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=14222&amp; daterange=&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertyp e=&amp;bodyprev=#Post1447073)

[BigF]

Come on man. In that post he clearly stated he doubled up the very FIRST hour he played NL25 6max and he lost money at full tables. This dude has lost over a grand. Give him a break.

[admo415]

I dont think I was giving him a hard time, but if he was doing so well, maybe he needs to look at what changed from then to now. It probably isnt just about bad cards, but about bad card selection and passive play...

[Wayfare]

Was really drunk when wrote that in all caps.

But if this guy is losing $1k at PP$25, it's because he plays horrible. Not just bad, but horrible.

These two plays are horrible.

On the first hand he literally did every single action completely wrong.

[theredpill]

Well, please tell me what the correct actions are. What would you have done preflop, flop, turn, and river ? Thanks. You wouldn't have reraised like that on the flop to try to push a guy with an ace out or king ? Please help. Don't just say you did terrible please try to correct.

BTW, my $30 roll is now $60...LOL

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. I got $30 left in my party account from $600 so I thought I'd blow the rest in the NL 6 max game and maybe some chance I'd win for a change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Red Pill, maybe poker is not your thing? Its kinda hard to sit back and read that post without telling you that you are too far from winning habits to keep risking capital.

If you are intent on becoming a winning player, then I suggest that you play on the play money tables for a few weeks exclusively. Play like its real money. Keep reading posts here and learning. You may find you learn more from the posted hands of other players...where perhaps you will find yourself more open to learning because you are not/were not invested in the results.

When you are smashing the game there (and I mean at least 15 BB/100 hands - those games are such a joke) then start playing again at a very low stakes game - .01/.02 or something like that. Then build a bankroll and progress slowly up the ranks.

[theredpill]

I've already done that. I killed the Paradise Poker $2 .01/.02 NL game. Then I consistently beat Paradise Poker's .10 /.25 NL game ($10 buy-in) . I'm ready to move up. I'm not going back down. Why can't you tell me the correct way to play QQ overpair ?

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
On the first hand he literally did every single action completely wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
hm, FWIW, I think the PF-play is fine, the flop-raise is well dosed, but the fold is plain *terrible*.

[theredpill]

Ok, so I did everything correct until not calling the extra $6 on the flop ? I don't know what "well dosed" means. I need to know because I'm playing again to tonight and if I don't know then the $60 might become $0.

[PoBoy321]

There's no 'correct' way to play QQ as an overpair. It all depends on the situation. When you have QQ on a 9 high board, someone pushes and you're getting 10:1 on your money, you HAVE to call. Christ, I can't even blame AK for calling getting those kinds of odds. In your shoes, I, maybe would have just cold called to try to extract more, but more likely would have pushed, but certainly would have pushed on any blank turn.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I did everything correct until not calling the extra $6 on the flop ?

[/ QUOTE ]
these are just my 2 cents and FWIW, I like it.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what "well dosed" means.

[/ QUOTE ]
English isn't my native language, sorry for that.
Whith the bet of $3 there are $11 in the pot. You raise another $8. I would bet a bit more ( potsize of $11), but your ammount seems reasonable too.

[ QUOTE ]
I need to know because I'm playing again to tonight and if I don't know then the $60 might become $0.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess tonight. Boy, take a break!

[Wayfare]

I would take one of two lines, your choice based on table:

1: Make a large reraise from bb and then lead on any flop with no AK (66% of time).

2: Just call and check raise a good flop.

When you say "because of the preflop raising someone must have aces" you need to look back at preflop and see whether you really think that action comes from aces very often.

I really do think you need to move down. You are not ready for this level. You are so obviously pot comitted here that I cannot believe you layed down.

[jjb108]

My guess is the response to that would be unfortunately you have to pay that off because it was $6 and you're getting 10 to 1 on your money.

[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
I call the $6 and someone flips over KK and you all would say....well....jesus....look at all the action on the flop. Someone would say, " damn, dude, flop is 9 XX and someone goes all-in and you think QQ is the best hand. Read a book you loser. "

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between going all-in for $6 in a $30 pot and going all-in for $30 in a $6 pot. In this hand, you had odds to draw to a set on the next two cards. No offense, meant, but I know it'll be taken, worst fold ever.

[Sephus]

am i the only one who noticed that he still has $16.4 left after calling the $5.7 and the SB has him covered?

[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
am i the only one who noticed that he still has $16.4 left after calling the $5.7 and the SB has him covered?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how this is relevant. Are you saying that he has to worry about the SB putting him all-in on the turn? Personally, given the pre-flop action, I have no problem getting all of my chips in the pot on the flop with this board, since I don't see any reason to think that he has the worst hand. The only hands I might be worried about is 99 or AK /images/graemlins/club.gif, but those don't seem like likely holdings for UTG+1 and I could see the SB being on a draw, but AK /images/graemlins/club.gif and only AK /images/graemlins/club.gif has even a slight advantage over you right now.

[Spladle Master]

Two words.

PARTY F*CKING POKER!

Queens are good.

[Sephus]

i didn't say it changed the fact that folding is bad, but you said he was calling $6 allin and it sounds like from reading other peoples comments that they are forgetting about the extra $16.4 as well.

[admo415]

what extra $16?

[PoBoy321]

The extra $16 if the SB put the hero all-in. My point is that the stacks would have to be much deeper in order for folding to be even a consideration. Even if the SB DID put the hero all-in, he would be getting about 3:1 on his money, which as far as I'm concerned, is plenty good odds that SB DOESN'T have KK or AA.

[theredpill]

I screwed up. After the hand , I put my head in my hands. I had to sit out for a while. I didn't leave. I came back and took half of the SB's stack. The guy with the most chips in that hand. It felt good.

I've been playing No Limit since about June of last year in some form: tourneys, $2 buy-in, etc. No limit exclusively I should add. And you say I'm not ready to move up to $25 buy-in. I screwed this hand up, I know. I think my other problems are playing too many hands and slowplaying. On party, I'm going to continue to play NL $25 tables either the $60 is going to increase or I will lose all of it and I will no longer play party poker ever again and I mean that except for the occasional Party Poker million qualifying tourney. I think I play better with my back against the wall. I'll keep you informed. If I lose the rest, I'll tell all of you. BTW, I didn't play tonight. I drank liquor and played video games with friends.