Showing down too many 2nd best hands lately

[mack848]

I lost all 8 hands I played with KJo and KTo last night. I've replayed them all in PT and most look OK to me. I called preflop (if unraised) from MP2 to SB. On one occasion I raised with KJo first in in the CO. Standard?

One hand I wasn't happy with was this:-

SB is Tag , UTG very LAG pre-flop, but passive post flop.

Flop raise/call OK? Fold the turn, raise and fold to another 3-bet, or is calling down OK?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[DeeJ]

I'm definitely raising preflop with high cards like this. The presence of the poster makes this more important [otherwise he gets a free play and hits his cray-zee 32o two pair].
KJo is marginal for me 4 off the button, but with the poster I'm open raising there.

On the rest - I play it the same.

[josh1122]

I fold KJo in MP1 preflop. The rest of the hand looks pretty standard.

[holdemfan]

KJ is not a great hand to raise preflop unless you in late position and only a couple limpers. Calling preflop in your position was standard. Your flop action was great. Raise it to push out the draws. When SB 3bet its time to either dump or check and call. Lets think backwards. SB TAG means he is likely to limit SB raises to AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AK,AKs,KQs. On the flop which of these hands would he 3bet? The ones you beat are QQ,JJ,TT. This means that he could have 5 possible hands to beat you. It's not likely he is betting this aggressively thinking he can beat any K in a field of 6 unless he feels his hand is better. If it was a field of 3 the aggressiveness would make sense with all of these hands. He is probably trying to eliminate anyone on the flush draw. May be he has a big pair with the nut flush draw too. It is possible he is betting his QQ,JJ,TT etc and hoping you will fold but not likely because of the bet on the river with 2 players still in.

[shant]

Is that really a standard preflop call? In that position I fold KJo.

[Harv72b]

I'm getting away from playing KJo in the first half of the order, and liking the results so far.

I think if I'm in the hand I call the flop bet and pop the turn. Any PFR from the SB is going to lead out the flop, and then probably slow down if the K would beat him &amp; he sees two flop callers. If he doesn't slow down, that means that he either has the K or he's going to try and bull his way over anyone with a KJ or KT...basically, if he has it, he'll 3-bet your turn raise and you can fold; if he doesn't, he'll either call your turn raise &amp; check to you on the river, or possibly even fold right then.

Calling down as you did cost you 4.5 BBs. Calling the flop &amp; raising the turn could get you to showdown for as little as 3.5.

[holdemfan]

[ QUOTE ]

Is that really a standard preflop call? In that position I fold KJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many do fold it. I don't like it before MP but find it playable after that. Granted it will be less playable in a loose game like this one. I find it is after the flop people make mistakes with this hand.

[BottlesOf]

KTo is not a great hand. I suspect you may be playing it too much. I think I would dump KJo in that spot, but I'm not so sure about that in 2/4. I like to raise my big offsuit cards, and if I don't think a raise there gave me a good shot at the button, and that I might be called by dominating hands, I'm dumping it there.