Reasons I (or You) Enjoy SNGs

[ThorGoT]

Curious as to why other people on this forum enjoy -- or, at least, play -- SNGs (as opposed to other forms of poker, primarily).

Personally, I like two things. (1) Repeated, short term ratification. If I money, I am happy. I like short term projects that I can complete and know were successful more than long term ones where ratification does not come so quickly. (2) Not boring. I just cannot sit & fold & fold & fold in ring games, even if I know it is the correct strategy. SNGs, it is easy to fold a bunch of hands early if you have to, as you know you will get to play (indeed, have to play) late. (3) Oh, yeah, variance. Less of it. So I guess there are three things. Maybe I will think of more later.

Although this is mostly a self-indulgent post, I wonder whether there is a psychological difference between people who play SNGs and people who play ring games (limit or NL), such that some people are more suited to one than the other. Curious to know what others think.

[syka16]

the cream filling

[adanthar]

All of the above, but definitely the cream filling.

[Awesemo]

Tournaments are a lot more fun than cash games.

[syka16]

Have you seen that WPT comercial where they intercut a push with sky diving, bungie jumping, and boxing a gorilla?

[PhiGamTN]

ok here goes meaningful-post++

I have to agree with you completly. I'm the same way with sng's. In ring games even though i know proper straegy is to wait for the big hands its a lot tougher to do for some reason.

Another reason I like sng's better is I don't have people swapping in and out all the time. I can get real good reads on the players and be able to exploit them for the rest of the tournament. Now I know this problem will be alleviated once i can pump my bankroll enough to afford poker tracker. But for now the 2.50 5 handed nl sng's on pacific are just a gold mine. It's rare i don't place in the money... hell half the time i'm in the money after the 3rd hand (idiots go allin with their amazing holdings like 10J) I had a guy call my first hand all in push (i had AA of course but they weren't soooooooted) with 102 soooooted he busted and i said nice hand doyle and proceeded to win the tourney.

Ok so maybe this wasn't a "meaningful" post... but i agree with you nonetheless.


Now if only someone would write a book focused on sng's strategy... come on guys have ssh .. i know tpfap has some relevance buttttttt...

[Cry Me A River]

I think that of ring, MTT and SNG, SNG offers the biggest advantage to decent/good/great players over bad players. If you don't understand SNG strategy you're just going to have no chance, in the long run, against players who do. I don't know how many times I've seen a player double or tripple up with crazy early all-ins but then bubble out when they try to cruise ITM. In effect, they're playing the SNG backwards...

SNG strategy is somewhat counter-intuitive, but it is essential and without it you're just hoping to get lucky. Which just isn't going to happen often enough.

[Gramps]

Grinding away multitabling (limit) ring games, applying the same methodology over and over (in the context of fewer, and less changing variables) kind of reminds me of my days back in school - cramming for some test, going over some rule/principle for the 16th time so that I have it absolutely memorized, even though I understood it's logical components by the 2nd time.

Playing SNGs, with their constantly shifting variables (and unique variable combinations) means I get to solve a new problem every time I play an SNG. It's refreshing/more stimulating.

And if you play tons of hours like I do, less mouse clicks with SNGs = less carpal tunnel issues.

Downside of SNGs = I throw more things across the room in disgust (but nothing broken yet). The "suddennes of one's demise" certainly can make for heightened emotional responses.

[ZebraAss]

I agree, the beats in SNG's will drive a person crazy.

[citanul]

Personally, and I haven't had massive poker experience or anything, especially not at huge limits, but there have been few things that I find more thrilling than winning a $215. I mean it's *one thousand dollars!!!!*

Amongst the things that I find cooler:

Winning back to back $215s!!!
Winning back to back to back $215s!!! (ok, I haven't played a ton of $215s, so this has only happened once.)

But you get the point. The ROI is big, the variance is low, and (as a result of those first two) the bankroll requirements, and the ratio of Return:BR can be quite large.

I like that they pay the bills.

citanul

[Phil Van Sexton]

Due to work/kids, I don't have time to play MTTs very often. They just last too long. In general, I'm a ring game player, but I go back and forth when I find myself getting bored with ring games.

What's frustrating about the SnG is when I play perfectly for 45 minutes and get great cards, but then lose on the bubble because 1 hand went the wrong way. When this happens, all I can think is "if this had been a ring game, I'd still way up".

If some fish takes me out, I'm frustrated that I can't get my money back (and then some) like I could in a side game.

[burningyen]

Because short-term results rule!

[threadkiller]

[ QUOTE ]
Grinding away multitabling (limit) ring games, applying the same methodology over and over (in the context of fewer, and less changing variables) kind of reminds me of my days back in school - cramming for some test, going over some rule/principle for the 16th time so that I have it absolutely memorized, even though I understood it's logical components by the 2nd time.

Playing SNGs, with their constantly shifting variables (and unique variable combinations) means I get to solve a new problem every time I play an SNG. It's refreshing/more stimulating.

[/ QUOTE ]I think this is why I like SNGs as well. Plus they're well defined financially - I know that I'm going to play 4 $5+.50s today, so that's a maximum risk of $22.

I play at both UB and PS, and which site I play at depends on the type of game I want that day. UB's structure means that I can play a little tighter at first, and as long as I get to t2500 by hand 60 I'm ok. PS means I have to bet far more aggressively, even with t1500 to start, because the blind structure goes up faster and if I'm not at t2500 after 40 hands, I'm going have a big problem. I'm just starting out (<50 SNGs on each), but with +ROI so I'm happy for now.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Grinding away multitabling (limit) ring games, applying the same methodology over and over (in the context of fewer, and less changing variables) kind of reminds me of my days back in school - cramming for some test, going over some rule/principle for the 16th time so that I have it absolutely memorized, even though I understood it's logical components by the 2nd time.

Playing SNGs, with their constantly shifting variables (and unique variable combinations) means I get to solve a new problem every time I play an SNG. It's refreshing/more stimulating.

And if you play tons of hours like I do, less mouse clicks with SNGs = less carpal tunnel issues.

Downside of SNGs = I throw more things across the room in disgust (but nothing broken yet). The "suddennes of one's demise" certainly can make for heightened emotional responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual Gramps...great analogy! Rote application of general priciples vs creative application?

[Michael C.]

I generally suck in ring games, and have always been a better tournament player. Like you said to start this off, I can wait all day for a good tournament hand, but in ring games I just get frustrated and play way too loose. Plus SNG's and tournaments are more interesting to me from a strategy standpoint. I can't tell you how many times I've played in a ring game and made plays I KNOW are bad, but I just kept on making them. I know that has more to do with me than anything else, but knowing yourself is at least some of the battle, right?

[schwah]

two things

much lower variance than big MTTs

much more interesting than ring



to be honest though, i'm primarily a ring game player. #1 factor has always been the hourly rate, and ring is where its highest (for me anyways)

[vindikation]

FUN!

I just started doing the Bonus Whore thing (Internet Forum) and this has been great for $, but playing 4 tables of NL ring games for thousands of hands is MINDLESSLY boring to me. After a month of ring games, I am finally back to SnG's clearing bonuses at Poker Room and Poker Stars (can't do this at Empire, Party, etc) and I realize how much more fun they are than the ring games.

I'm playing poker for fun more than anything so to me, SnG's are the best thing going.

[2PAUL2]

I enjoy s&g's too but for all you ring dissenters try lagging up a 6max table.

Just as much fun as long as you dont mind a bit of variance.

Paul

[El Maximo]

I also think SnG strategy is not widely known or studied. I think the majority of the lower buyins are populated with poker players taking shots at something different. They are either bored with ring games and need a break or they are killing time while playing or waiting for an MTT.

[KingOtter]

Maybe I'm a weirdo... I like both ring and SnG's. They do bring different things to the table, though.

I like the payout vs. investment of SnG's.

I like the fact that in ring games the money I win is mine, all mine!

I like the competitiveness of SnG's. I seem to play players more, rather than cards.

But I like the theories and numbers involved in ring games. Calculating pot equity, pot odds, chances of hitting, what does the other guy have.

I like the fact that no matter how bad I play in SnG's, I only lose my buy-in.

I like ring games because if I play a big hand and lose I can keep playing and with patience will get that money back.

I like SnG's advancing blinds/stakes so that loose players get penalized more heavily, generally.

I just really like poker.

KO

[lorinda]

Apart from the fact that I'm better at them, and the other factors mentioned in this thread, I think SNGs keep you sharp.

Sitting in a ring game for 8 hours doesn't have many things to stimulate. Nothing actually changes, each hand is played pretty much the same.
SNGs having a defined start and end means you have natural breaks in play and a mental reset every hour or so.
They also give you a clear sub-goal on your way to "Winning as much money as possible"

Lori

[The Yugoslavian]

SNGs have many more gears than ring games while also being available in bite-sized portions of under 1 hour.

Gears are fun, vrooooooom! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Plus isn't it nice to actually 'defeat' one's opponents in some sense by knocking them out -- I like that aspect too!

Yugoslav

[vindikation]

Yugo what do you think of the Clippers with Marko Jaric and Zeljko Rebraca? Jaric was having his best year and now is out hurt for a month...sucks! Rebraca is playing well now that he is a little more healthy.