Drinking and Driving.... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

craig r

01-07-2005, 08:03 AM

Anything that not only can result in your death, but somebody elses, seems like a great idea. Seriously, I don't even know what you want people to say. I am not the type of person to talk someboy out of doing something stupid, but if it can kill or paralyze somebody else, I will probably try to talk them out of it.

craig

daveymck

01-07-2005, 08:07 AM

I get the impression that getting DUI conviction isnt as bad in the US as here.

Here you automatically lose your licence for a year, get a criminal conviction and many people then end up losing their jobs because of it.

However there is still a hard core that drink 1 in 3 tested over christmas were over the limit.

There is pressure here to reduce the limit as people are not sure how much they can drink to be under the limit (it tends to be two pints ish for the average person).

We have all probably done it at some point but it is stupid and irresponsible.

CCx

01-07-2005, 08:16 AM

2 beers and driving, no problem, no one's drunk

10 beers and driving, i hope you hit a tree and dont injure anyone else

Reaction

01-07-2005, 08:28 AM

Drinking and driving isnt nearly as serious as the courts make it to be. If they were that worried about accidents they would make it illegal to talk on the phone or eat while driving, although all the lawmakers do both of those things, which is a reason it isnt illegal. Another reason the courts are so hard core on drinking and driving is becasue it creates jobs. Think about it, drug and alcohol councelors, PO's, jails, etc. etc............ MADD said jump and the courts asked how high?

daveymck

01-07-2005, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Drinking and driving isnt nearly as serious as the courts make it to be. If they were that worried about accidents they would make it illegal to talk on the phone or eat while driving, although all the lawmakers do both of those things, which is a reason it isnt illegal. Another reason the courts are so hard core on drinking and driving is becasue it creates jobs. Think about it, drug and alcohol councelors, PO's, jails, etc. etc............ MADD said jump and the courts asked how high?

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely also in the UK its illegal to use hand held phones or eat or drink while driving. People still do it but people also get done for not being in complete control of the vehicle.

To say drink driving is not that serious though is idiotic you just have to look at the accident figure certainly in the UK to see that drinking and driving makes you more likely to be involved in an accident.

craig r

01-07-2005, 08:34 AM

Who cares how seriously the courts make it? People get drunk and they can't drive or their driving is seriously impaired. Cars are already very dangerous, so adding alcohol to the mix makes it even worse.

And some places have made it illegal to drive without a headset for your cellphone..so obviously places are recognizing the dangers of this.

craig

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!

01-07-2005, 08:45 AM

Zoltri

01-07-2005, 08:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Drinking and Driving....
is fun

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not funny.
/images/graemlins/mad.gif

daveymck

01-07-2005, 08:51 AM

Also studies have been done where they feed alcohol to be people and get them to drive simulators it was shown how little alcohol it takes to impair driving and in particular increase speed and road perception, basically as alcohol gives you a feeling of confidence in your abilities.

daveymck

01-07-2005, 08:54 AM

Dakota Study on Alcohol effects on driving (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4135233.stm)

A policemans eye view on drink driving (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4111737.stm)

gaming_mouse

01-07-2005, 08:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
is fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to do this all the time in my teens and early twenties. I mean all the time, and I did it raging drunk. I am terribly lucky I never killed myself or anyone else. I finally got a DUI with a BAC of .2 (about 11 vodkas), almost went to prison, had to take 6 months of DUI school, go to 10 AA meetings, and pay about $2000 in fines.

It was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because I have never drove drunk since. One of things I remember best was a highway patrolman who came into our class with polaroids he had personally taken of drunk driving victims. These were some of the most gruesome things I have ever seen. I remember one, in particular: A woman's brand new jogging shoe, by itself on the asphalt, with her detached foot still inside it.

By the way, I used to have the same cavalier attitude about it, and would sort of flaunt the fact that I was not afraid to drive drunk. I won't preach to you, because no one could have to me. But there really is decent chance you will kill yourself or someone else if you continue to do it.

Cheers,
gm

mmcd

01-07-2005, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares how seriously the courts make it? People get drunk and they can't drive or their driving is seriously impaired. Cars are already very dangerous, so adding alcohol to the mix makes it even worse.

And some places have made it illegal to drive without a headset for your cellphone..so obviously places are recognizing the dangers of this.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference between "drunk" and this .08 nonsense we have now. Even when it used to be .10 it was rediculous. I think I probably need to be at about .20 before my ability to drive becomes seriously impaired.

IMO they should make .10-.15 a bullshit traffic ticket and maybe get you off the road; .15-.20 the same as .10-.15 if the person person appears reasonably o.k. (thru sobriety tests, no stumbling falling down, minimmal or no slurring etc.) and criminal (like now) if they appear pretty drunk; and .20+ criminal like it is now, with soe extra serious penalities for those who come in above .30.

dr. klopek

01-07-2005, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I won't preach to you, because no one could have to me. But there really is decent chance you will kill yourself or someone else if you continue to do it.

Cheers,
gm

[/ QUOTE ]

Signature sorta kills it huh?

BeerMoney

01-07-2005, 09:21 AM

I remember when drunk driving was a sport.

gaming_mouse

01-07-2005, 09:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Signature sorta kills it huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll drink to that.

jakethebake

01-07-2005, 09:51 AM

I got my DWI ten years ago, and it really sucked. Don't risk it. It's not fun.

One thing about drinking and driving laws that makes me crazy though is that instead of aggressively enforcing the laws in place, they just keep lowering the BAC that is legal. It has gotten really ridiculous a lot of places. The .1 everyone used a few years ago was right IMO. Now most places are .08 and some are even .05, which is just insane. That's like a half a beer. Drinking & driving is a probelm, but this isn't the way to solve it.

OrangeHeat

01-07-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I got my DWI ten years ago, and it really sucked. Don't risk it. It's not fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto. I got one five years ago. It ain't worth it. I'm glad I got caught, I could have killed someone.

Never done it since - I dont reccomend it unless you like the court system.

Orange

beerbandit

01-07-2005, 10:21 AM

i prefer one or the other ---- combining the two seems like trouble to me

cheers

Toro

01-07-2005, 10:25 AM

This forum needs a recycle bin.

jakethebake

01-07-2005, 10:25 AM

My DWI was a pretty funny story though. I was drinking with a bunch of buddies. I had been working when they started so I was doing catch-up drinking. Anyway I was wasted and decided to drive. I'm on the freeway and see a bunch of police cars....some kind of wreck. I figure I'll just go around it. Anyway a few miles down the road I look in my mirrir and realize I'm getting pulled over. He'd been chasing me for like 5 miles. It turned out I had weaved between a police barricade and almost run over a dead body from the wreck. They told me my tire missed its head by like three inches. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

daveymck

01-07-2005, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I got my DWI ten years ago, and it really sucked. Don't risk it. It's not fun.

One thing about drinking and driving laws that makes me crazy though is that instead of aggressively enforcing the laws in place, they just keep lowering the BAC that is legal. It has gotten really ridiculous a lot of places. The .1 everyone used a few years ago was right IMO. Now most places are .08 and some are even .05, which is just insane. That's like a half a beer. Drinking & driving is a probelm, but this isn't the way to solve it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nowadays I just take the attitude of not drinking and driving at all, having a beer and driving just isnt worth it even when you know you are under the limit and get pulled over and breathalised its still a worry you might be over (this happened three years ago after a flight with two little bottles was panicing). PLus lots of times I have the kids in the car so I just dont risk it.

Hack

01-07-2005, 10:47 AM

People who drive drunk should get a 1 year prison sentence. Second time it should be 10 years. Third time- life.

That would cut down on drunk driving, and make the roads a lot safer.

Anybody who would disagree with this is obviously a drunk driver or a drunk driver sympathizer, with no respect for the sanctity of human life.

If you wanna kill yourself, that's fine. Go ahead. I don't give a [censored]. But when you put my life in danger, you are a real scumbag.

I was almost killed by a drunk driver. It happened New Years Eve 2002. They were coming up behind me on I-81 and they kept swerving into the lane I was in. I switched lanes to get out of their way and they followed me. I just drove off the road to get out of their way and drove past. They were in a gigantic SUV and I was in my S4, so I most certainly would have been killed or maimed if they had managed to hit me.

[censored] drunk drivers.

And don't tell me I shouldn't have been out on the roads on New Years Eve/Day. Those fuckers shouldn't be out on the road. They should be in jail. I had my kid in the car with me as well.

Hack

01-07-2005, 10:48 AM

Drunk driving is not funny.

lu_hawk

01-07-2005, 11:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
is fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]

17,000 people died last year from alcohol related crashes. You sir are an f-ing retard.

Shajen

01-07-2005, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]

17,000 people died last year from alcohol related crashes. You sir are an f-ing retard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Including my cousin. Got hit head on by a drunk in a pickup. Motorcycle vs pickup = no contest.

The original poster isn't funny. And it's not even close.

ThaSaltCracka

01-07-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]is not smart. Try not to do it bro, for your safety, and for the rest of the people on the road. I made the mistake of driving once when I was completely hammered. I managed to crash my moms car(thankfully the only person who was injured was my stupid ass). Somehow I didn't get a DUI either.

Don't make the same mistake I did though.

LALDAAS

01-07-2005, 01:16 PM

In the state of New Jersey and in NYC. Your first DUI will cost you over a course of 3 years well over $10,000 6-months loss of licence and your car. That right they take it.

1. car gone!
2. Jail over night and hope you do not get arressted on friday night becuase you will be in the cooler for the weekend.
3. buddy bails you out $500
4. A lawyer $1500 to $3000 and you will still lose.
5. $1500 to $3000 fine.
6. 6 to 12 months lose of licence
7. After that good luck on getting insurance. If you do liabilty only, say on a 1990 Geo $4000 easy if you do need full coverage about $6000
8. The state will issue you a surcharge for $1000 every year for 3 years.

Trust me I watched this happen to my brother they threw the book at him.

AncientPC

01-07-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No.

[/ QUOTE ]

mmcd

01-07-2005, 03:03 PM

Do you feel the same about bad drivers?

I'd be willing to bet that a bad but stone sober driver is far more dangerous on the highways than a decent driver who is slightly above the legal limit. Our legal system and anti-drunk driving advocates just don't seem to recognize the difference between someone that had a few beers and is driving at .09 or .12 and someone who is completely can't even stand up shitfaced and is driving at .52.

Imposing the same penalties regardless of BAC is ridiculous.

ThaSaltCracka

01-07-2005, 03:06 PM

I agree with you to a certain extent, but some people are smashed at .1, while others are sorta buzzed. Its to hard to gauge this objectively.

lu_hawk

01-07-2005, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you feel the same about bad drivers?

I'd be willing to bet that a bad but stone sober driver is far more dangerous on the highways than a decent driver who is slightly above the legal limit. Our legal system and anti-drunk driving advocates just don't seem to recognize the difference between someone that had a few beers and is driving at .09 or .12 and someone who is completely can't even stand up shitfaced and is driving at .52.

Imposing the same penalties regardless of BAC is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone with a .52 is not conscious and might not even be alive. Bad drivers suck too, but if you are at .1 you cannot drive as well as if you hadn't drank at all. And why should other people be put at increased risk because you think it's ok to drive at .1?

mmcd

01-07-2005, 03:32 PM

Someone with a .52 is not conscious and might not even be alive.

I beg to differ. When I get to this point, I'm not only conscious, but quite a handful to deal with. And as best I can tell I still have a pulse.

Bad drivers suck too, but if you are at .1 you cannot drive as well as if you hadn't drank at all. And why should other people be put at increased risk because you think it's ok to drive at .1?

Thats all fine and good, so the next the time I see some guy driving 60 in the second to left lane on a 4 lane highway, or have some crazy bitch in front of me that doesn't know how to use her blinker, how should I go about getting criminal sanctions and license suspensions imposed on them?

The fact of the matter is, the guy that gets caught doing 105 weaving in and out of traffic gets a $300 ticket and an increase in insurance rates, while the guy that gets caught driving after having 3 or 4 beers gets a criminal record, probation/community service or whatever and 6 month license suspension.

The difference between driving at .09, .18, and .52 is like the difference between someone driving at 70mph, 85mph, and 150mph in a 65mph zone in terms of the danger they pose.

Hack

01-07-2005, 03:51 PM

I agree. The penalty for a BAC of .52 should be a drivers license revocation, for life.

If they drive again after this, they should be executed.

It seems that a lot of people on here are pussies about punishment.

mmcd

01-07-2005, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. The penalty for a BAC of .52 should be a drivers license revocation, for life.

If they drive again after this, they should be executed.

It seems that a lot of people on here are pussies about punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or pussies about the inherent risks involved of driving on public highways.

wacki

01-07-2005, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif

comment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Before

http://www.helpjacqui.com/images/photos/PhotoJaqui_300x300-02.jpg

After
http://www.helpjacqui.com/images/photos/Photo_JacquiAndAmadeoAtAwards_581x300.jpg

http://www.helpjacqui.com/

ThaSaltCracka

01-07-2005, 04:00 PM

why do you post this? To guilt trip people or something? That could have easily of happened with a sober driver as well.

wacki

01-07-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why do you post this? To guilt trip people or something? That could have easily of happened with a sober driver as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it could of, but it didn't.

Many people won't listen to the numbers, so maybe they will listen to the individual stories.

ThaSaltCracka

01-07-2005, 04:07 PM

why? I don't buy into this blatant scare tactic bs, sorry wacki.

wacki

01-07-2005, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why? I don't buy into this blatant scare tactic bs, sorry wacki.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scare tactic bs? Do you call 40%-60% of all driving fatalities scare tactic bs?

ThaSaltCracka

01-07-2005, 04:12 PM

no posting pics of people that have half their face burned off is though.

LALDAAS

01-07-2005, 04:16 PM

That was just a little too much reality for me Wacki. The very #1 reason even after 1 beer I dont drive. The down side It ticks off my friends becusae I never drive any where and there is an on goin joke that once I park my where I park my car on friday night thats where it will be on monday morning.

wacki

01-07-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That was just a little too much reality for me Wacki.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's odd how all the stats in the world don't mean squat, but a story of one person does. Her story is just as bad as the pics btw.

P.S. I'm not talking about you specifically, just people in general.

elwoodblues

01-07-2005, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Drinking and driving isnt nearly as serious as the courts make it to be

[/ QUOTE ]

It's usually the legislature that is to "blame" not the courts.

[ QUOTE ]
Drinking and driving isnt nearly as serious as the courts make it to be

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that there is at least some social utility in both of these things and there isn't in drunk driving.

[ QUOTE ]
Another reason the courts are so hard core on drinking and driving is becasue it creates jobs. Think about it, drug and alcohol councelors, PO's, jails, etc. etc............

[/ QUOTE ]

Lunacy at its finest. People are hard on drunk drivers for job creation....right.

brassnuts

01-07-2005, 05:14 PM

I'm glad to see the responses I got to this. Very appropriate. I actually drank and drove a few times while I was in college, but I never really drove "drunk." I don't do it at all anymore.

Last night I was at my friend's house in his jeep spinning donuts in the snow. He lives on a barren 10 acre lot just outside Gardnerville and it was fun. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

IsaacW

01-07-2005, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone with a .52 is not conscious [...]

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not always the case. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1835&ncid=1835&e=1&u=/cpress/20050104/ca_pr_on_od/oddity_bulgaria_drinker)

MelchyBeau

01-07-2005, 11:42 PM

I found a new goal in life

Melch

Tron

01-08-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone with a .52 is not conscious [...]

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not always the case. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1835&ncid=1835&e=1&u=/cpress/20050104/ca_pr_on_od/oddity_bulgaria_drinker)

[/ QUOTE ]

What a champ... You know, except that he was wandering around in traffic.

whiskeytown

01-08-2005, 12:50 AM

yep...

lots easier to excuse bad behavior when it's anonymous victims without names and people we don't know - plus it lets us do our "I'm not hurting anyone but myself" defense.

putting up pictures like that might actually make us more accountable and make it more real - God forbid.

RB

Reaction

01-08-2005, 06:49 AM

I bet the president of the DUI task force in Pierce County, WA and a Judge of Thurston County, WA both felt like crap when they got their DUI's. Im sure they knew the true facts, but something compelled them to drive "drunk".

david050173

01-08-2005, 07:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you to a certain extent, but some people are smashed at .1, while others are sorta buzzed. Its to hard to gauge this objectively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is pretty easy. If you are driving normally and don't get into an accident, the cops are not going to pull you over. If your weaving around or get into an accident, obviously you are impaired and the test just gives an number they can use in court. Yes that is a very simplistic argument (what if your drunk sitting at a red light and you get rear ended) but in general it works out. To be fair most deaths are in high BA (half are over .2) so the reduction to .08 probably doesn't help safety a whole lot and is more of a marketing thing.

As far as cell phones being worse, there were 2600 deaths were attributed to them in 2002. Drunk driving was about 17,500. Not really close yet. And as far as how effective the law is compare the drunk driving deaths in 1982 versus 2002. There has been a significant decrease since MADD and the like ramped up in the late 80s. Factor in that people drive more (and there are more people) seems like the campaign is doing what it was designed to do. It is hard to figure out how things like better saftey (more people wearing seat belts) have helped but since deaths as a % have drop that might factor out. Any one want to start a topic on how it is smart not to wear a seatbelt? After all not wearing one, only kill about 7K US citizens a year.

Cyrus

01-08-2005, 11:18 AM

A thousand words' worth.

<font color="white"> .</font>

...Posting up a picture of an American soldier killed in Afghanistan, the corpse of the poor guy all bloody and fisfigured : There would be people who would accuse you of 'guilt tripping' us and and tell you we get more people killed from DUI accidents.

ChoicestHops

01-08-2005, 02:49 PM

It's fun, but not right. Alot of things in life are fun but they are very morally wrong.

People will get a reality check, soon enough. It might take killing someone, or them wrecking their car and seeing they should have died.

ChoicestHops

01-08-2005, 02:57 PM

I'll be a little more specific.

Don't come in and talk about what the BAC limit should be. There are many factors, as with all drugs, and it effects people differently. You aren't wasted at .20 and can drive fine. Good for you. There are some people who drink one beer and their face turns red.

I drank and drove basically every night for a long time. I never really messed up when I drank within my limits. I wouldnt swerve, I also drove people around when I was drunk before then even knew I was drunk and they said I was driving excellently.

The problem is when you drink too much, and decide to drive. That is what happened to me. I drank about 12 or so shots of tequila in an hour, and smoked alot of pot, and an hour later, for some reason, I decided to drive.

The problem is when a binge drinker like myself gets way too drunk, there's a point when self control becomes not existent. I dont remember leaving the party, or driving, or having the wreck I had. I believe I passed out behind the wheel, for all I remember is looking out my side window and seeing a cop pulled up besides me.

The point is that, yes, you can successfully drink and drive 1 out of 100 times, or even 1 out of 1000. But that time you drink in excess is the time you will get a reality check. Or the time you die.

By the grace of God I am alive and didn't kill anyone. Im glad I have another chance.

Sponger15SB

01-08-2005, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Many people won't listen to the numbers, so maybe they will listen to the individual stories.

[/ QUOTE ]

When my brother was like 9 years old (he is 27 now), he was driving with his Dad who was an alcoholic and they were going about 90 on the freeway in the middle of the day and weaving in and out of moderate traffic. He lost control and crashed, causing his car to flip over and spin about a billion times, my brother was fine, but his dad was ejected from the car and almost died.

He wasn't even allowed to get supervised custody of his son after this whole ordeal.

It just goes to show how pathetic people who drive drunk are, and don't even care about their own family.

Drunk driving is the dumbest thing you could possibly do, and I'll NEVER understand why people would.

BusterStacks

01-08-2005, 03:51 PM

I am currently on 2 years probation as a result of a drunken driving incident. I almost killed one of my gf's best friends. I used to think it was no big deal, afterall, driving isn't very hard and I have driven drunk tons of times. It only takes once though, I was looking at 5 years in jail (manditory minimum), and had never been in handcuffs before. I assure you it is very serious, any other attitude is pure arrogance.

On a side note, it is rediculous how expensive a DUII conviction is, regardless of the results.

Lazymeatball

01-08-2005, 04:32 PM

That does sound like fun actually. I've always wanted to just drive around in a big barren lot even sober, and try out all that stuff you get to do in video games with no fear of crashing into stuff.
What would be the best way to do this, go to an abandoned airforce base in Kansas or something?

theredwave

01-08-2005, 05:32 PM

I believe we have discussed this already. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1373238&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1

Either way you're an idiot just trying to cause a bit of a commotion, well done.

ChoicestHops

01-08-2005, 05:37 PM

Very true, it only takes one time. Whether it takes one hundred or a thousand times to get to that one time.

brassnuts

01-08-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Either way you're an idiot just trying to cause a bit of a commotion, well done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I wasn't trying to cause any commotion. Though, everytime I see my original post, I realize that's exactly what it looks like. Honestly, at the time, I was only thinking, "That was fun, I'll post on 2+2 about it," but I wasn't thinking of how bad it would come off looking. Hell, I didn't even explain what I was talking about til the next day when I got home and saw the thread. I really wasn't trying to rile people up.

Victor

01-08-2005, 05:55 PM

Drunk driving is a large part of american society and culture simply because there are no alternatives.

Very few cities provide adequate and useful public transportation. Providing such services would be far more effective in reducing drunk driving incidents than lengthy jail sentences and crippling fines.

vulturesrow

01-08-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Drunk driving is a large part of american society and culture simply because there are no alternatives.

Very few cities provide adequate and useful public transportation. Providing such services would be far more effective in reducing drunk driving incidents than lengthy jail sentences and crippling fines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, its not having enough public transportation. It has nothing to do with people being irresponsible and making bad decisions. By God, lets not hold people accountable for their actions.

YTV

01-08-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Drunk driving is a large part of american society and culture simply because there are no alternatives.

Very few cities provide adequate and useful public transportation. Providing such services would be far more effective in reducing drunk driving incidents than lengthy jail sentences and crippling fines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me you dont actually believe that? It is a persons own responsibility to have transportation arranged prior to drinking, or at the very least find a ride with somene else at the end of the night.

Having a city bus that travels within 2 blocks of my house rather than 2 miles wont have any inmpact on wether i drink or drive, but going to jail will.

Sponger15SB

01-08-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Right, its not having enough public transportation. It has nothing to do with people being irresponsible and making bad decisions. By God, lets not hold people accountable for their actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read it again. He is not trying to justify it or say that people shouldn't be accountable for their actions.

I could see drunk driving being much more of a problem in rural areas than in big cities with subways.

Victor

01-09-2005, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Right, its not having enough public transportation. It has nothing to do with people being irresponsible and making bad decisions. By God, lets not hold people accountable for their actions

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured I would get such a response and I am certainly not surprised it is from you, vulture.

So, I suppose I must clarify so that all the angles are covered.

[ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with people being irresponsible and making bad decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

No where in my post do I state this. No where in my post do I attempt to absolve drunk drivers of their actions or lessen responsibility. Sorry, if that is the implication. Of course it is ultimately the individuals responsibility.

However, if you believe that more and better public transportation would not lessen drunk driving then there is clearly a fundamental inherent flaw in your logic.

Victor

01-09-2005, 02:00 AM

Sorry if I implied that I felt people should not be held responsible for drunk driving.

My response was directed at the people who are saying that there should be excessive penalties for drunk driving and that they would serve as a deterrent. I do not believe this would work unless the penalties were obscenely severe such as multiple years in jail.

The reason is because drunk driving has pervaded our society and is seen as acceptable and necessary by many people. How many famous people have been pulled over? How many people in public service (ahem, Gdub)? How many regular people? These people were not drinking by themselves and then decided to get in a car and go somewhere. They were with friends or at a bar being served. In short, others watched them and allowed them to drive drunk. This happens all the time. This is a societal issue. Sure, the bulk of the responsibility lies with the individual, but certainly the surrounding people are aware of what is going on.

Furthermore, I think it is quite obvious that if there was adequate public transportation that drunk driving would be reduced. This statement is not meant to assess blame. It is simply a logical analysis. Do you not believe it?