Did I play this incorrectly?

[skiierguy]

hello...another first time poster here. i play low limit single table tournies almost exclusively and am wanting to improve my game. this hand really pissed me off tonight (i play as 'marantz'):

PokerStars Game #1047937655: Tournament #4448508, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/01/07 - 03:07:24 (ET)
Table '4448508 1' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: xxJerryBoyxx (2190 in chips)
Seat 2: SouthernCo** (2430 in chips)
Seat 3: frowdiggs22 (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: Titan9 (3355 in chips)
Seat 8: marantz (1870 in chips)
Seat 9: msp20 (2185 in chips)
marantz: posts small blind 75
msp20: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to marantz [Qc Ac]
xxJerryBoyxx: calls 150
SouthernCo** has timed out while disconnected
SouthernCo**: folds
SouthernCo** is sitting out
frowdiggs22: calls 150
Titan9: raises 300 to 450
marantz: raises 300 to 750
msp20: folds
xxJerryBoyxx: calls 600
frowdiggs22: folds
Titan9: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [6h Qs 7s]
marantz: bets 450
xxJerryBoyxx: calls 450
Titan9: calls 450
*** TURN *** [6h Qs 7s] [2s]
marantz: bets 670 and is all-in
xxJerryBoyxx: calls 670
Titan9: calls 670
*** RIVER *** [6h Qs 7s 2s] [Ts]
xxJerryBoyxx: bets 320 and is all-in
Titan9: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xxJerryBoyxx: shows [Kc As] (a flush, Ace high)
marantz: shows [Qc Ac] (a pair of Queens)
xxJerryBoyxx collected 5910 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5910 | Rake 0
Board [6h Qs 7s 2s Ts]
Seat 1: xxJerryBoyxx showed [Kc As] and won (5910) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: SouthernCo** folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: frowdiggs22 folded before Flop
Seat 5: Titan9 (button) folded on the River
Seat 8: marantz (small blind) showed [Qc Ac] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 9: msp20 (big blind) folded before Flop


the table was actually somewhat passive up until this hand, which is kinda rare at the $6.50 turbo tables. i think i played the turn incorrectly and am very open to any/all suggestions (or even comments telling me how much of a fish i am). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

from my POV, i think i got screwed by an idiot overplaying AK (as so many people do) and catching running cards to four-flush me. any comments are welcome!

[Bigwig]

You didn't just play the turn incorrectly. You also misplayed preflop and on the flop.

Preflop, with this much in the pot, and 1/6 of your chips to call, you should either (a)reraise all-in, or (b)fold. In this scenario, I prefer reraising all-in. Calling would have been better than the mini-raise you made. Out of 4 possible choices, you made the worst one.

Secondly, on the flop, with TPTK and 2 spades you should push. A flush draw has the odds to call and most likely will, so you can't give any cheap turn cards to let someone pick up two pair, or hit a set, or get another spade, etc. But, you did.

So, don't fret about the turn. Analyze the other two plays you made.

[skiierguy]

i see. that all makes sense...i'm gonna do some reading to help myself stop playing like a fish.

[Marcotte]

Whenever you bet or raise, think about how much will be in the pot if your opponent(s) call. Compare that to how much will be left in your stack. If the pot will be 80% or more of your stack after the call(s), you probably should have pushed. However, this is just a general guideline that I just made up, and I've only had one cup of coffee. Many factors (including flush draws) can change this. And (Edit:) Bigwig had it right. Turn is irrelavent. Call/Push preflop. Definately push the flop.

[wiggs73]

I think the worst move was the pre-flop raise. Personally, I like a call here, though I'm sure plenty of others would disagree. An argument for a push or fold could definitely be made as well (and already has been), but with 2 limpers and a raise to those, I'd try not to over-value AQ here (as the small-raise is a value raise now considering pot odds) You should also consider your position post-flop. In the SB, you'll be first to act, so actually maybe this further justifies a push here. You at least eliminate your post-flop positional disadvantage if you get called.

Now, I was just typing that on the flop, I'd bet but not push. However the more I thought about it, the more I think push is the correct move on the flop. Here's why. If you make a big bet (which at the least, I think you should have bet more than you did), and get raised all-in, you are pot committed and also have the correct odds to call. Therefore, you should go ahead and push because it gives you more ways to win the pot, as your push is more likely to get others to fold. With just a smallish bet compared to the pot size, you are basically betting for value. So the only way you can win is if you have the best hand at the showdown. With a push, you could possibly get others to lay down a better hand than yours, so you can either win by getting others to fold a superior hand or win by having the best hand. This advice may not be particularly pertinent to this example, but I think in general, it is good advice. If you act first and are prepared to call an all-in with less than the nuts, go ahead and push.

Anyway, back to the hand... With the way you played the hand up until this point, I don't think there was much you could have done on the turn / river that could have helped you.

Others feel free to disagree with what I've said, I'm always eager to hear others' opinions. Might learn something new. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[jah0550]

No disrespect, but you played this hand terribly. When it got raised, then reraised and you reraised the reraiser was a bad play with AQs. I would have just called the first reraise to see the flop. Reraising can only put you in a prediciment(sorry horrible speller). Say the raiser goes all-in PF, then what do you do? On the flop, you got exactly what you wanted TPTK. Why not go all-in on the flop? You want to push out any flush draws or mid pairs trying to catch a set cheaply. And you kept it cheap for them. The pot is already +2000. Take it down on the flop and be happy with that monster pot.
Don't worry about it though, it took me forever to realize that AQ is maybe the most overrated hand in holdem. The best way to get better is just to play a ton. You will see what hands you should be playing/betting in certain situations. Good Luck!

[RobGW]

As everyone has said, a min re-raise with AQ is not a good move especially without position. With so much money in the pot I think I would call here to see a flop. But since you did raise, the pot is now huge. You caught TPTK and at this point you should be content in taking the pot immediately. The best way to do that is to push on the flop. By only betting $450, you gave just about everyone good odds to continue with the hand and ultimately outdraw you.

[wiggs73]

In the future, it would probably be a good idea to leave out the results of the hand until you get some responses. That way people's opinion of the hand won't be skewed by the results. Always easier to say a hand was played badly when you know the person lost all their chips on it.

Anyways, hope you win a lot of chips next time you get AQ. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bigredlemon]

definetly call/fold the flop.

You want to flop top pair with a slightly better kicker. That's where the money is. He made a large raise PF representing a good hand, there's no need to raise it up to kick out the trash.

With the min-re-raise, you're also kicking out anyone with AJ (taht you make money from) while keeping in AK (who you give money to.)

If there was a large raise behind you and the first bettor calls/raises, then i'd consider laying it down or else push.

On the flop, it's easy push. Any less would pot commit you anyway, but let them see a card for cheap.