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dmk

01-06-2005, 11:51 PM

Basically I'm down 50BB in the past hour...and it smarts a bit...

I know some of these are standard, but I just need some reassurance I'm not losing an extra BB here and there. Also, these are the BBJ tables, so they're better than the normal 5/10 full games.

1) No clue why I raised the flop here...I guess I felt like I deserved the pot just because I raised preflop.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

2)

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero folds, BB calls.

River: (10 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, CO raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

3)

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

4) Here's one I completely butchered, don't be gentle...

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB

5) ???

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Thanks /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Beavis68

01-06-2005, 11:56 PM

2,3,4 seem way over played - raising with JTo PF?

dmk

01-06-2005, 11:58 PM

Could you at least tell me what you'd do differently? The JTo hand I was CO and the only ppl in the pot were the 2 blinds and a poster in MP that checked his option. Is it bad to raise in this situation?

holdemfan

01-07-2005, 12:01 AM

I can see the effort to steal blinds but after some of these flops and turns, yikes, give it up.

Harv72b

01-07-2005, 12:05 AM

Hand 1: Looks good to me. Raise the flop because you don't know if he's betting the scare cards against a PFR, betting the flush draw, or what.

Hand 2: Complete preflop. ATs is a good hand, but your position sucks and you would've gotten a lot more respect on that flop if you hadn't raised. I'm only raising ATs if I'm first in from LP.

Hand 3: Why on earth are you going to call a turn raise with 3rd pair (and 4th pair is on the board)? The only thing you beat is a pure bluff.

Hand 4: Fold preflop.

Hand 5: You were playing for set value, and your set missed. I don't so much mind the raise, but I'm folding to that flop 3-bet.

Harv72b

01-07-2005, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Could you at least tell me what you'd do differently? The JTo hand I was CO and the only ppl in the pot were the 2 blinds and a poster in MP that checked his option. Is it bad to raise in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

When you get into a potential short-handed situation, you want to have a highcard capable hand, or pocket pairs. JTo is neither...it plays best against a large field, where the straight potential can pay off with a big pot. I can see this is as a simple attempt to steal the blinds + a post, but once you get called, you have to realize that you're almost certainly behind on the flop even if nobody has the K.

MoreWineII

01-07-2005, 12:08 AM

I don't think it's horrible to steal-raise with in that situation if the blinds are weak and/or you play well post-flop. The presence of the poster helps too.

JTo is about the bottom of the barrel though.

pokerjunky

01-07-2005, 12:14 AM

Looks like you might be on tilt a little bit. Step away from the computer for a little while and get your mind off of poker.

Kevin

01-07-2005, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Complete preflop. ATs is a good hand, but your position sucks and you would've gotten a lot more respect on that flop if you hadn't raised. I'm only raising ATs if I'm first in from LP.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with T, A. CO posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I though that Ed said in SSH that not raising with A10s is probably worse than raising with 72o. I think he is referring to the big blind, but I think it would work in the small blind. UTG doesn't have a better ace or he would have raised - especially with the presence of a poster. Button calls with a limper and a poster which kinda looks like a hand hoping to get the blinds to come along and get a multi-way. It seems really clear that, save for a better random hand from the big blind or a really tricky poster hoping to limp reraise knowing that a raise is coming - probably lighter than usual - that our hero has the best hand here. He got it in with the best of it, they came along for the ride and he whiffed on the flop. With a favorable flop, those extra bets would have spent well.

I would think that he folded in about the right spot here, but I have been wrong many times before.

Harv72b

01-07-2005, 12:39 AM

SSH does recommend raising ATs from the SB, and I'm sure that they spent a lot of time mulling it over, but I just don't agree with it. I don't have enough hands in my database to matter, so it's basically just a gut feeling.

For one, I think a lot of people do limp with AJ & even AQo, which puts you into those situations where you PFR even though you're the dominated one. For another, like I said, your position is terrible from SB...you are never going to be able to play for a free card, and you are always going to be susceptible to raises and/or cheap calls. FWIW, ATs is at the very bottom of the range of SB PFR hands in SSH, which likely means that it's one of those small +EV situations in the authors' eyes. This also could be one of those cases where my gut says one thing, but further experience proves it wrong; I don't know.

I do agree that dmk played folded in the proper place in the hand, though.

DavidC

01-07-2005, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5: You were playing for set value... I don't so much mind the raise...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure that I like the raise on this ragged flop. You have a bettor, who could have a BDF or a higher pp, and a caller, who probably isn't calling with overcards and can't be calling with much else.

On a completely unrelated note, when it gets back to him for a bet, should he find yourself in a pot where it's 23:1, call. For a detailed explanation (theory: implied odds are more important than equity here), see: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1434339&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1

DavidC

01-07-2005, 02:11 AM

One of the limpers was UTG, that could make a difference, depending on who he was.

DavidC

01-07-2005, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ATs is at the very bottom of the range of SB PFR hands in SSH, which likely means that it's one of those small +EV situations in the authors'

[/ QUOTE ]

probably carries a caveat: "if played expertly"