Call this All-In? Nut Flush Draw...

[jalsing]

$10+$1 STT at pokerroom.com

First hand I'm BB with rags. UTG+1 raises to 125 and folds around to me, who folds as well. UTG+1 shows KK as he collects the blinds. This is the only read I have.

Second hand I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the SB. Same Player now UTG makes it again 125 and UTG+2 calls as do I.

Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG goes ALL-IN. I'm on the nut flush draw, but early in the tourney I'm just considering folding. As I'm waiting for UTG+2 to fold so I can, he CALLS...

Suddenly, I'm thinking...well, the pot odds have changed, still not optimal, but I could TRIPLE up early with a 35% on my draw??

Call??

Opinions and critique appreciated.

-Jason

[gusly]

I'm not an expert, but I'm doing pretty well in 10+1 and I'm almost finished with Harrington's book, so I'll take a stab at this...

There's a good chance that this guy is bluffing, but you can't discount the possibility that he has a strong hand and is betting to force out any flush draws.

I think your hand should have been folded because of the preflop raise. It's too early in the tourney, you're in the SB, so you're out of position after the flop, and there was still a player left to act after you. I'm pretty sure you would have folded if the BB reraised all-in; you would have wasted 125 chips without seeing the flop.

And this early in the tourney you don't have enough information about the type of game the raiser plays. What range of hands can you put him on? His flashing the KK is not enough.

With that said, if for some reason you really believed this guy was attempting to steal and you wanted to play your ATs, you should have reraised preflop to get some more info about the true strength of his hand.

But back to your original question... I vote fold, watch this guy carefully and pick him off at the right moment. Right now you have ace high. Not a good hand to stake your tourney life on when you have a full complement of chips and the blinds are low.

And wouldn't you kick yourself after you call if one of your opponents had a set, and the card that gives you your flush gives him a boat?

[stillnotking]

Depends on your read of UTG+2. Would he call without a set? If you're up against a set, your pot equity is only about 25%, not enough for a call. If neither player has a set you are getting the odds to call. (It's not likely the original raiser has a set; most $10+1 players would not play JJ this way. But it is entirely possible that the caller has one if he is a decent player.)

[Drizztdj]

Early in the tournament, auto-fold. Later in tournament if you're a below average stack and the blinds are moving up rapidly, I'd say go for it.

[El Maximo]

These are the kind of situations you get into when you call a raise with an ATs early in an SnG. Stop doing it! Bleeding chips early is one of the biggest leaks in SnG play. I would fold and tighten up.

[MikeyEdge]

I hate to go broke on a draw, especially this early in a tournament, so I think I would probably have to let it go against two all-ins.

Assuming that one player has a Jack and one player has a PP somewhere between 7-7 and 10-10 you will lose about 63% of the time.

And I'm not too crazy about the call pre-flop anyway against an early raise and caller. You are out of position the rest of the way.

[syka16]

exactly

[jalsing]

I had similar thoughts myself, and I would definately would've folded vs just the original raisers All-in. The second all in somehow fouled my judgement and I considered the call.

As for the pre-flop call, yeah, maybe not so good, but I acutally kind of like the SB as far as position goes. Your closer to last to act preflop than the button, your semi-discounted if you want to call on marginal hands, and after the flop you have the choice to take the lead or check and act last (assuming the player to your immediate left bets out..)

Still learning this game however, so there are bound to be leaks...

-Jason

[jogger08152]

If you had folded preflop (you should have), you wouldn't have to think about it. A number of things would make this (post-flop) an easy fold for me, not the least of them being that the caller may have called with a flush draw, which would meaningfully reduce the chances of your hand coming. (Of course, if you think your Ace would be good if it hit, that would be another three outs to root for.)

[gusly]

[ QUOTE ]
I acutally kind of like the SB as far as position goes. Your closer to last to act preflop than the button, your semi-discounted if you want to call on marginal hands, and after the flop you have the choice to take the lead or check and act last (assuming the player to your immediate left bets out..)

[/ QUOTE ]

Postflop, you're at a distinct disadvantage, unless you're real lucky and get the perfect flop.

I'm curious... did you check or bet on the flop? If you bet, how much did you bet? I could be wrong, but my hunch is that you checked or bet the minimum and it backfired when the UTG raised all-in.

I think if you had represented strength by leading out with a healthy bet on the flop, you would have prevented a bluff by the UTG, and you probably would have seen the next two cards at a reasonable price. Unless of course, you still got reraised all in by one of the other two active players, which would almost certainly indicate a very strong hand.

[jalsing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I acutally kind of like the SB as far as position goes. Your closer to last to act preflop than the button, your semi-discounted if you want to call on marginal hands, and after the flop you have the choice to take the lead or check and act last (assuming the player to your immediate left bets out..)

[/ QUOTE ]

Postflop, you're at a distinct disadvantage, unless you're real lucky and get the perfect flop.

I'm curious... did you check or bet on the flop? If you bet, how much did you bet? I could be wrong, but my hunch is that you checked or bet the minimum and it backfired when the UTG raised all-in.

I think if you had represented strength by leading out with a healthy bet on the flop, you would have prevented a bluff by the UTG, and you probably would have seen the next two cards at a reasonable price. Unless of course, you still got reraised all in by one of the other two active players, which would almost certainly indicate a very strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't remember, but I probably bet into it, but more than min for sure, perhaps 100-200. I'm sure it just screamed flush draw, to be perfectly honest. I think UTG would have bet the same regardless, considering the cards he showed after all was said and done.

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I acutally kind of like the SB as far as position goes. Your closer to last to act preflop than the button, your semi-discounted if you want to call on marginal hands, and after the flop you have the choice to take the lead or check and act last (assuming the player to your immediate left bets out..)

[/ QUOTE ]

Postflop, you're at a distinct disadvantage, unless you're real lucky and get the perfect flop.

I'm curious... did you check or bet on the flop? If you bet, how much did you bet? I could be wrong, but my hunch is that you checked or bet the minimum and it backfired when the UTG raised all-in.

I think if you had represented strength by leading out with a healthy bet on the flop, you would have prevented a bluff by the UTG, and you probably would have seen the next two cards at a reasonable price. Unless of course, you still got reraised all in by one of the other two active players, which would almost certainly indicate a very strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't remember, but I probably bet into it, but more than min for sure, perhaps 100-200. I'm sure it just screamed flush draw, to be perfectly honest. I think UTG would have bet the same regardless, considering the cards he showed after all was said and done.

[/ QUOTE ]QQ?

In any case I'd fold. You lose if you're wrong. 3x the chips doesn't increase your ROI enough to justify calling.