Turbo Texas Holdem vs. Poki Poker ?

[richrf]

Anyone using or has used either of these programs in now or in the past? Did it help you play? If so how? I am downloading the demos to get a peek, but the demos are limited so I would like to hear real-life experiences. Thanks.

Rich

[I Play 2 Ski]

I have TTH and it is great for practicing. You can play, run simulations, its a great too. I haven't tried poki

[SheridanCat]

I own them both, but I haven't played TTH in a while.

Both are fine for practice, but there's really nothing like playing against a thinking/non-thinking human being.

I think TTH lets you setup more complicated simulations than Poki does. Conversely I think Poki's AI plays a better, more realistic, game of poker than TTH does. Of course, the player profiles are tweakable on either product, so you can tune it to your tastes.

The new Poki Academy product is pretty slick. My TTH is about 2 years old, so I may be looking at an older version, but it's graphically far behind Poki.

One nice thing about the new Poki is that it keeps hand histories, so you can easily review your play. It's a lot like playing online live but without real opponents or money.

Which one is best? It's hard for me to say. The Poki opponents seem somewhat better, but that's with the stock opponents playing limit.

One difference, as least versus my version of TTH, is that Poki will play tournaments and no-limit as well as limit. My TTH doesn't play no-limit and the tournament version is a separate product, though I believe it's more feature-ful than Poki's tournament play.

Again, I'm comparing to a 2 year old version of TTH, dunno if there has been a newer release.

Regards,

T

[Rudbaeck]

Poki is alot stronger, it has a user interface that looks modern instead of the 1988 look of TTH. And best of all, you can 'get it all' in one Poki package while you'd need hordes of separate $89 TTH programs. (NL, tournament play, limit ring game etc are all separate TTH programs.)

Poki also includes two HU programs that are damn near unbeatable. Even the world champs fair no better than even against it. (This is absolutely not true for full ring, where even a modestly good human can expect to run circles around Poki or any other poker playing software.)

[richrf]

Thanks SheridandCat and Rudbaeck. Saves me lots of research time. Both seem like fine programs, but your experiences are very helpful in my decision process. Are there any "features" in TTH that you miss when you are playing with Poki. For example, in the demo, TTH gives some pre-flop advice. I didn't see that in Poki, but it is a demo.

What I am primarily interested in is using these products to gain a better feel of the "odds" associated with each hand - using simimulation techniques and different tactics under different situations. Paradise Poker is giving me _plenty_ of real-life play. Just a day on Paradise has improved my play a lot. I was getting really sloppy on the other sites - it was worse than Yahoo. :-) But I am on track now and looking for ways to further strengthen my playing skills.

If you have any recommendations, other than TTH and Poki, to harden my playing style, I would appreciate it. I did read the FAQ and greatly appreciate the effort that is going into it. It really helps.

Rich

[SheridanCat]

The new Poki Academy does give advice at all points in the hand if you want it too. I think that feature is better than the corresponding TTH feature. It also gives you a bunch of stats to during the course of play if you ask for it.

The only think I think missing from Poki that TTH has is the ability to run some pretty complex simulations. Poki has a simulator, it just seems less feature rich.

As for other programs, those are the only two worth looking at, I think.

Regards,

Troy

[richrf]

Hey Troy,

Thanks for the comparison. I guess what I will do is to focus on Poki's demo and see if it does what I want it to do. If so, I purchase it and if I need a better simulator in the future, I will get TTH. Have you found yourself using TTH's simulator much or is Poki's adequate for most situations. Thanks again for saving me all of this time figuring it out myself. :-)

Rich

[SheridanCat]

Poki has been more than adequate. I've used the TTH simulations a bit, but not enough to justify buying it again.

Regards,

T

[richrf]

Thanks T. I'll let you know how it works out. And thanks for all of your help on this forum. It is a great place for poker newbies.

Rich

[KenProspero]

Have both TTH and TTH tournament.

TTH is ok, if you want to test out a strategy, and want to play a lot of hands very quickly (maybe 300 an hour if you don't watch hands after you fold).

I like the fact that you can tweak the player profiles to get the kind of game you're looking for. However, I find the play to be predictable at all levels, and unless you consciously ignore the quirks in the software, it's too easy to beat).

I find the advisor to be a joke. They have one feature that allows you to play the same hands that the advisor has and it compares your results after set intervals (50, 100 or 200 hands). I've tested this for maybe 5000 hands, and am far enough ahead of the "Advisor" that I've decided that substituting its advice for my judgment is a waste of time. (I think the Software is supposed to be Tight Aggressive, but IMO, it's not nearly aggressive enough)

It also has a feature that walks you through hand-by-hand where your play differs from the recommended line. Again, this is only as good as the Advisor. What's the 'most annoying' part is that for the advisor, all 'errors' are equal. It really doesn't differentiate between gross errors and close plays.

This being said, it is nice to set up scenarios and play them out with many hands, and it's not a total waste.

The tournament software, IMO IS a total waste. Too predictible, etc. I'm not a great player, but with a 99 table tournament -- (about 900 players), I'm able to make 'the money (ahem)' about 35-40% of the time, and make the final table maybe 8-10% against the toughest competition level. I don't think I can learn much from this, but it's fun on a plane ride, I suppose.

I did talk to Wilson's recently, new versions of both pieces of software are due out soon, supposedly with improved AI.

[richrf]

Hi Ken,

Thanks a lot for the info. Saves me lots of work - and probably pain. I noticed on the Internet Texas Hold'em site they have some recommended tweeks for TTH. Did you ever have an opportunity to try their tweeks out?

But the big question is whether you think TTH or any software helped your game at all and if so, in which way? Poki is, I think, $39 which really isn't all that much money so I don't expect too much from software. Maybe $39+ worth. Others seem to think they got some value from the softare. What do you think? Is it worth it?

Rich

[KenProspero]

TTH has definately helped my game. By enabling me to play many more hands than I would have been able to very quickly.

Many here have said that "play" money games are useless. I agree, both because of poor players, and more importantly because of players who do things they'd never do with money on the line.

Although TTH doesn't play well, it always plays seriously. You can also choose opponent profiles to adjust the loose/tight, weak/aggressive characteristics. This means that you can simulate many of the low level games you see on the internet.

After 10,000 hands or so, which cards you play in which circumstances becomes second nature. Also, which plays work, and which don't become apparant. If you're persistant at it, you could get these 10,000 hands in in a couple of weeks without trouble. (Actually, you could do this in a day or so if you were really obsessive about it).

I can't think of another way to get that much experience that quickly. Of course you have to keep in mind that even at the program's best playing levels, it's not a great player (or even a very good one), but the level it does play at should prepare you for low level internet games very well.

[richrf]

Hi Ken,

That's great to hear. I think that the recommendations I have received so far are sufficient for me to purchase a product. Thanks again to everyone on this thread for helping me out. Saved me lots of time - and probably money.

Cya,
Rich