AA early on, good fold?

[Womble]

Blinds only 10/20 about 9th hand

I am CO with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, I raise to 120 (good?), Button calls, Blinds fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls

Flop 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif NOOOOOOOOO!
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 goes all in, everyone folds

Could have been a bluff but I doubt it. Would like to know what to do if instead I had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gif Would that still be a fold this early on. I am almost certainly up against a made flush or a K /images/graemlins/club.gifx

[Jekyll]

good raise pre-flop, but that flop was ugly. with two red aces on that flop, i'm out of there, and frankly wary of any bet at all. if anything, the person that went all in strikes me as weak, probably with a high single club. if they had a made flush, even a relatively small one, they'd most likely go for the check raise, and risk giving one free card. but without even one club, there's too much that potentially beats you or can beat you. fold here, but if you'd had the A club, i'd call unless i had strong reason to believe he had it for sure.

[spentrent]

Two red aces versus 3 players makes this a good fold. I think I'd play it the same if I had the ace of clubs.

Since UTG+2 is the last pre-flop caller getting 3 to 1 pot odds, I can see him playing any two connected clubs or maybe even Ax (or gasp, Kx, this early).

If I had the ace of clubs, I'd rather be the all-in raiser on this flop, not the all-in caller.

[Mystic]

Nice to see a hand for discussion rather than another bad beat post!

I would have played this hand exactly the same as you. The preflop raise amount was fine, as was the fold on the flop.

Assuming no reads against this opponent, his possible hands include top pair with (or at the low levels without) a club, eg K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. He could also be protecting a flopped set. I would say that the made flush is fairly unlikely (given the huge overbet), but possible.

If you held the A /images/graemlins/club.gif I would call. You could well be ahead and have your opponent dominated, and if you are behind at least you have the draw to the nuts. If you are behind and don't catch up, then it's time to forget about it and fire up a new game, and not under any circumstances post the hand here having lost to 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
fold here, but if you'd had the A club, i'd call unless i had strong reason to believe he had it for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the Ace of clubs, it's an insta-call. You have a reasonable shot at sucking out if he has a flush or a set, you're even against two pair (unlikely on this board anyway), and you're *crushing* a pair/pair+flushdraw - his most likely hand.

With the red Aces, I guess it's a fold since you're buried against a flush or a set, but aren't far ahead of the flush draw+pair.

[Unarmed]

Pretty sure i'd call that. The chances of him actually having the flush are pretty slim. And if he did, why wouldn't he check to the PF raiser and let him (you) hang himself? Same goes for a set, would he really push? This bet doesn't want a call. He has the naked A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[adanthar]

Depends on the buyin but at <$30 this is an autocall and I would still call at the $50's.

This is a pair and a club, or just an overpair with or without a club, or just the A /images/graemlins/club.gif, roughly 90% more often than a flush or a set.

There's a similar thread in the MTT forum right now in which, coincidentally enough, the worst players are saying to fold (WITH the A /images/graemlins/club.gif) and everyone else says to call. Of course.

[schwza]

you've got to post stack sizes... if you and teh pusher both had 2k, easy fold. if you or he had 300, easy call.

assuming everyone started w/ 1000 chips, there was ~500 in the pot on the flop, and the push is for 880. this could be a Q with or without a club and could easily be a semi-bluff on a club.

i think i would call, but only after reading adanthar's post. if you have the A /images/graemlins/club.gif, there is absolutely no way you can fold. even against a made flush, you have lots of outs.

[Womble]

It was the 9th hand, I think he had slightly over 1000 and I had less than 1000 (1 SN + 1 BB payed)

I won the tourny anyway, he turned out to be wreckless and built a big stack only losing it to me when I hit 2 pair on the flop later!