what college classes will help my poker game?

[bleu329]

I went to community college for two years and was taking mostly basic classes deciding between majoring in computer science and some sort of communications/broadcasting, but I decided to take a break from school last semester because of my successes in poker. I started playing poker last spring and have made a significant amount of money, so much that if I made this much every year I could do it for the rest of my life.

I would like to return to college and I'm not sure what, if any, classes would help me with poker. I have also considered following through with some sort of degree if poker does not work out for me. Any suggestions as to what classes/schools/majors I should be looking for, or any directions you can point me in as a head start? Thanks.

[Leonardo]

To be honest, probably none. The math required to play poker can be learned by a 10 year old, some computer science wouldnt hurt if you like running simulations, game theory wont help at all, just read TOP for game theory that is practical for poker, maybe a bit of option theory may be worth it, specifically on real options. Finance classes cant hurt too much, but once again probably not overly helpful. I would say this. Take some computer science and then try to write a program to play poker. You will fail miserably but just trying to make your game more explicit will really help you think about the game and a framework for understanding hands. If you can base your program on some kind of real option theory then you could really come up with something worthwhile, even though the program would still suck. Psychology wont help, science wont help, like I said the math is easy, but if you can take a class specifically on discrete math, that may be useful somewhat. If I were you, take finance. It wont help your game, but your game will help your finance. Thinking in terms of EV puts you way ahead of other students, poker is a great lesson for looking at investments the right way and being decisive. Then go read something about Warren Buffett, start investing and play poker for fun..... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[nate1729]

-Math (not calc-ish, things actual math people study), not for the math itself but for cultivating the ability to think clearly.

-A little rudimentary psychology helps, but it's nothing you can't get from the poker canon.

Beyond that, unless you happen to be somewhere in Illinois taking Jim McManus' poker class, you aren't going to get specific skills you'll need, except maybe endurance. Anything that teaches clear rigorous thinking will help, though.

[bobdibble]

The first few weeks of an upper division probability course would be useful in analzying your game away from the table... You just need a basic intro into probability distribution.. ev, sd, etc... the rest of the course will be overkill.

While it is true that the math at the table only requires the skill of a 10 yr old, the away from the table analysis can be more complex. (Although, it is still pretty basic.. for an example, see the current debate and resulting EV math over in HUSH re playing 76o from the BB via a steal-raise)

[mordecaibrown]

If I'm not mistaken a few colleges in cali offer classes on poker theory and few other subjects.
I may have read some place that chris ferguson is active in these classes and ideas.
Might want to check it out. MB

[MarkL444]

intro stats class will help you get a grasp of variance and SD and [censored]

[alfatcat]

I wouldn't suggest going to college with the sole intent of helping it improve your poker! But depending on what aspects of poker you enjoy, you might find that large areas of the social sciences could be interesting to you. Here are some classes that might be complementary:

1. Some basic math--enough to make sure you can handle #2, more if you enjoy it or find you're good at it.

2. Probability and Statistics. As you've seen from discussions here, a decent understanding of these concepts is essential to good poker play. A well taught stats class (a challenge to find!) can be enormously helpful in lots of other fields.

3. You should take some micro economics. At it's heart, micro economics is about how people and firms consume, produce, and exchange resources and how these different agents interact. Whether we're talking about chips and cards or guns and butter, you'll learn some frameworks to guide your thinking.

4. Once you've taken introductory micro, a course in game theory would be interesting and perhaps even useful. You will definitely notice concepts that seem familiar from poker (bluffing, collusion, the power of position, etc.) applied to other arenas (business, politics, etc.)

5. An introductory psychology class. As Doyle Brunson says he plays the man (and now women play poker too!) not the cards. Psychology looks at how people make decisions, react to stimuli, etc. Again, the applications to poker are pretty obvious.

6. A class I took in an MBA program that I use every day was Negotiation. Don't think this is taught to undergrads a lot, but there is definitely a lot of overlap between being a good negotiator and a good poker player (preparation, discipline, emotional control, tight-aggressive style, ability to read other people, understanding expected value, changing styles based on situations, etc.)

7. Perhaps some finance as well.

In summary, if you work hard to see the links,these classes could very well help with poker. More importantly, if you're interested in poker, these classes might spark some new academic interests.

[Francis]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to return to college and I'm not sure what, if any, classes would help me with poker. I have also considered following through with some sort of degree if poker does not work out for me. Any suggestions as to what classes/schools/majors I should be looking for, or any directions you can point me in as a head start? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would strongly suggest you flip your priority. Poker, while a great hobby, is not an easy profession. If you have the resources and greymatter to get through college, get a degree! That and a decent job will put you ahead of 98.5% of the worlds poker professionals...

Technical skills, math, engineering, physics, etc. will all lead to careers that will earn you a comfortable living... And as a bonus, analytical skills that these disciplines require will serve you well in your poker hobby...

Regards,
Francis

[bleu329]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't suggest going to college with the sole intent of helping it improve your poker!

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I really want to get back to school right now is basically to get back into society. Pretty much I've been sitting at my computer playing literally a million hands of poker and video games, but I am one of those people that "don't go outside."

I really want to go back to college to meet new people again, perhaps find a career field, and if I can find a few classes that will challenge the way I play poker, that would be great too!

Thanks all for your responses - if anyone else has more ideas that would be much appreciated. I think I can put a few classes together for this semester, and by next semester I can decide whether I would be able to play poker forever or if I should find a new career(which I am definately undecided)

[ QUOTE ]
Take some computer science and then try to write a program to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already know a ton of C++ up to OOP and could probably make the necessary program. Are you suggesting I make a program that contains me against 8 computer AI opponents, or something like a win % calculator, or what?

[charlie_t_jr]

I don't have a suggestion about poker/college. But I thought I would pass on a comment:

[ QUOTE ]
I went to community college for two years and was taking mostly basic classes deciding between majoring in computer science and some sort of communications/broadcasting,

[/ QUOTE ]

You weren't specific, but if your thinking of radio broadcasting, I would suggest getting your degree in anything except broadcasting. If your interested in on-air work in radio, just find a local small market station to work at while you get your degree.

In retrospect, thats what I wished I had done. It's been quite a while since I was in school, but unless things have changed, a broadcasting degree for radio is...well I hate to say useless...Let me put it this way. When I was hiring someone for a small market station, I always had better results from a someone with a HS diploma and 6 months experience, than I did with someone with a broadcast degree and no experience. The degree gets you ready for entry level...but entry level to radio can be accomplished with a HS diploma, interest and a little aptitude.

If your interested in broadcast news, get a journalism degree. Sales...marketing degree. A business degree. With a couple of years experience at a small station, you'll learn what most broadcast graduates know. With some experience, and your degree in "whatever", you'll be way ahead of the game.

Good luck.

[Rasputin]

Take some insufferably boring classes to work on your patience and discipline.

Take some classes where you need to write clearly. This is not for your benefit, it's because it because there are too many people who can't write for crap and it bugs the piss out of me.

[ESCaspian]

A class in logic never hurt anyone it can give a great ground work for thinking through problems (including poker situations)

[lightw1thoutheat]

Well I'm a math major (soph) at Haverford College (PA) (anyone even heard of it? /images/graemlins/wink.gif). I have to say that nothing ive learned in class has helped my play at the tables a bunch. But i think that any kind of education which makes you think logically will certainly help, so any basic math classes should put you on the right track. (but some basic statistics should probably help with understanding things like SD and such)

Not that i had anything that interesting to say, but when does a math major get to say anything? /images/graemlins/wink.gif
-light

[girgy44]

OK so you can make enough money play for the rest of your life, but do you really want to be grinding it out at 65? Something I have thought about myself(dropping out), GO BACK TO SCHOOL!! PLus you can get drunk all the time, as I am

[college kid]

Few classes will help your poker, but your poker will helps almost all your classes. The critical thinking and analysis skills will prove useful most everywhere.

[Jman28]

I took a philosophy class this past semester in Bayesian Probability theory because I thought it would help me with poker. I would say that it had some poker benefits, but I was pleasantly suprised with the class and it may have sparked an interest.

Picking classes that relate to poker aren't that bad of an idea because you have a good chance of being interested in them since you are interested in poker. This could lead to a career.

One day in class, we started discussing EV. Man, I owned that day. My professor had me type up something I explained to everyone in class and he handed it out cuz he thought it was a much better explanation of a problem than our textbook gave.

-Jman28

[Michael Davis]

I think a lot more classes will help your poker game than appear to. Classes that involve high-level thinking and analysis, even literature classes, will improve your game.

On a basic level, a general prob/stat class and a logic class would be the most helpful, but frankly, I can't imagine taking a class is worth it when you can memorize or learn what you need for poker in a couple of days (as far as basic statistics go).

-Michael

[Matt Flynn]

find a math class with "combinatorics" in the title. usually it's taught with graph theory or stats or probability. that will take you through calculation various types of probability. excellent background.

next i would take a class in negotiation. extremely valuable in life and has ancillary poker benefits.

matt

[Mark1808]

I would say economics, probability and game theory would be helpful. The best poker players in the world don't play poker however, they do business deals and that is where your future is. Good poker skills can make you an excellent deal maker. While poker players try to grind out $20 an hour playing hours and hours of poker, a top deal maker can make millions with less effort! Use poker as a stepping stone to bigger and better things and let poker be your hobby.

[lil_o]

I am an undergrad engineering student and part of my core classes involved taking a class Modelling Analysis and Uncertainty (MAU). It was an introduction to statistics and use of the computer program Mini-tab.

Mini-tab is extremely useful in running simulations for statistics. I would recommend you look into it or see if there is a class which teaches it.

[K C]

There's not a lot to add to all this, although no one mentioned courses in business. This can serve you well both at the table and in real life. Even the casual player can benefit by treating his playing like a business, and making decisions in line with this.

KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

[Zapped]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I really want to get back to school right now is basically to get back into society. Pretty much I've been sitting at my computer playing literally a million hands of poker and video games, but I am one of those people that "don't go outside."

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa nelly pardner. If you think studying programming, engineering, medicine or law will help you "get outside", think again. My experience in microprocessor design is that the more absorbed you are in your career, and the more successful you become, the less time you'll find for anything else - be it family, hobbies, or going outside. It's really an effort to force myself to swim laps 3x/wk and run 2x/wk, and I don't even want to think about how long it's been since I've gotten on the bike.

If you're that good at poker, then, heck, stick with it, but get an Art History degree if that's what you love, and force yourself to get off your buttocks and walk the dog for an hour everyday!