J8o out of the SB

[Wepeel]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

River: (12.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

How does it look?

[Jaran]

Fold pf.

-Jaran

[sexypanda]

Yea, you really should fold this pf, J8 off is pretty crappy. But other than that I think you played it fine. What are your reads on UTG? After he caps the flop, I'd probably give him credit for a set or a flopped straight, but call down anyway. On the river, the only hands that beat you are JJ and 88, I think JJ is pretty unlikely since there was no pf raise. I think you played the river fine. If you lost to 88 so be it, but I think you'd be more likely to see 77 or 910 in this situation.

[Wepeel]

What's the reasoning behind folding pf with J8o in a 5 way pot? I think the potential for a straight draw on the flop is worth the call, but I could be completely off base here. I contemplated folding, but figured what the heck for half a small bet. I guess I couldn't have hoped for a much better flop though.

[Jaran]

You have a offsuit 3gap hand w/very little highcard power. This is trash. Don't let your results in the hand convince you otherwise.

-Jaran

[sexypanda]

I'm by no means an expert on this, but with J8, you can only make 2 possible straights 78910J and 8910JQ (highly unlikely). If you hit your jack or 8, you will have a very marginal pair that is most likely not going to hold up. Finally, you will be first to act each round. making it even harder to play. Even if you do pick up a straight draw, it might cost alot to draw to it.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the reasoning behind folding pf with J8o in a 5 way pot? I think the potential for a straight draw on the flop is worth the call, but I could be completely off base here. I contemplated folding, but figured what the heck for half a small bet. I guess I couldn't have hoped for a much better flop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, yes fold pre.

[Wepeel]

Well if I was results oriented, I would be looking for reasons to fold J8o.

[Entity]

Preflop isn't even close to a good call. Fold.

Wou you complete T7o? 96o? 85o? 74o?

Unsuited 3-gappers with little to no high card power are weaksauce.

Rob

[Wepeel]

Well from now on I'm gonna fold J8o from the SB regardless. Even when you flop a monster two pair you always lose to the top set who only takes more money from you on the river when you make the lower full house. Sometimes you wish bad players raised good hands, but I guess J8o shouldn't have been a question to fold pf.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Well if I was results oriented, I would be looking for reasons to fold J8o.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wouldn't really have to look all that hard. It's trash. It's offsuit. You're out of position.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, you really should fold this pf, J8 off is pretty crappy. But other than that I think you played it fine. What are your reads on UTG? After he caps the flop, I'd probably give him credit for a set or a flopped straight, but call down anyway. On the river, the only hands that beat you are JJ and 88, I think JJ is pretty unlikely since there was no pf raise. I think you played the river fine. If you lost to 88 so be it, but I think you'd be more likely to see 77 or 910 in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he lost to 88, i'd ask for a setup change.

-d

[bozlax]

Ok, so you stayed in on J8o for half a bet...I'm prone to doing the same, assuming that most of the time BB will check.

My question is, why check on the turn if you weren't going to raise the bet? Why not bet out? At that point you had the best two pair available, and (in a later post) you say you weren't worried about JJ, so if you were worried about 88 what's the betting strategy on the river?

[Hack]

It's a two-gapper.

[Wepeel]

Yeah I know it's a two gapper that's why I said it at least had some straight possibilities. So now I'm getting comments on it's ok to play from the SB. Any reasoning?

By the way I did lose this hand to JJ.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I know it's a two gapper that's why I said it at least had some straight possibilities. So now I'm getting comments on it's ok to play from the SB. Any reasoning?

By the way I did lose this hand to JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not okay to play in a 1/2 structure from the SB.

[Hack]

It has two straight possibilities using both cards.

7-8-9-10-J is one. 8-9-10-J-Q is the other. Only one is the nut straight.

JT is infinitely better than J8 because it makes 4 straights, and all straights are to the nuts.

J8o makes middle pair most of the time and it is not even suited. I'm pretty sure this hand has a negative expectation from this position, or from any position for that matter except the BB, where you can see the flop for free.

[Brain]

Ugh.
Fold PF.
Raise the turn.

[Hack]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way I did lose this hand to JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

You walked into it by playing this hand. There is a decent chance you are dominated after so many limpers and in this case you were REALLY dominated. You were like 10% to win this hand dude.

I know that's results oriented thinking somewhat but you shouldn't have been in the hand with this. Suited yes of course, but it's not suited.