Limping behind a limper with AA/KK???

[DonButtons]

Whats the logic behind this?

Ive seen some players like actionmonkey who always do this, but it always seems like he gets screwed to the Big blinds two pair.

Does anyone else use this play?

To clarify, Im not talking about limping in EP with AA first to act, but someone already limped, and you limp behind him with AA...

[raptor517]

personally i dont like doing this, it creates too much risk. you definitely have no idea where you are at, and can lose your entire stack all too easily. if someone raises, you can pull off a great limp reraise, BUT, you will look like a fool when you lose your stack to the 29 that hit 2 pair.

[binions]

This is called playing "second hand low." McEvoy has a section on it in Tournament Practice Hands.

Generally, this should be used only when you are fairly sure there will be a raise to your left (ie an action player in late position). The whole value of the play is in the reraise, since you are more likely to be called (as others will see you as trying to steal the pot).

[UMTerp]

It seems to me that there are some players at the levels he plays that will raise (often big) a field of limpers nearly every time if they're either on the button or in the big blind.

Is it possible that he's only using this play situationally, depending on the lineup? Maybe he's got notes on some players that like this move, and since the $200 player pool isn't enormous, that's a possibility.

If he does it every single time, I don't like the play. I don't think the deception makes up for letting that many players see a flop.

Also, I'm sure he only does this during the first three levels, right?

[Maalox149]

I guess T.J. Cloutier's advice "limp with aces and you'll never get broke with aces" doesnt hold up here. Second hand low can be a devastatingly effective play, as noone will put you on that big a hand preflop. Its risky, but the action on the flop should give you some idea where you're at. You just have to be careful if the flop comes connected, suited, paired or any combination of these. Keep your head about you and this play is great, just be able to throw away those vowels if you feel you're beat.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that there are some players at the levels he plays that will raise (often big) a field of limpers nearly every time if they're either on the button or in the big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactamundo

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible that he's only using this play situationally, depending on the lineup? Maybe he's got notes on some players that like this move, and since the $200 player pool isn't enormous, that's a possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactamundo again.

[ QUOTE ]

If he does it every single time, I don't like the play. I don't think the deception makes up for letting that many players see a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I'm sure he only does this during the first three levels, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. It works even better when there's a bigger pot to steal when the blinds are big. On the bubble, if both the non-blind players limp, there's an awful lot of incentive for the blinds to push with any pair, and maybe much less. I would say that I'm limping from the CO or Button much of the time with aces in this situation.

Irieguy

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
No. It works even better when there's a bigger pot to steal when the blinds are big. On the bubble, if both the non-blind players limp, there's an awful lot of incentive for the blinds to push with any pair, and maybe much less. I would say that I'm limping from the CO or Button much of the time with aces in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, though when the blinds get large, I'd imagine the ONLY hands actionmonkey is limping with are AA and KK, so the deception factor isn't there as much. Early on, he could be limping with any pocket pair. But your point stands, since some players (even at those levels) use this play regardless of who the limpers are. It has to be player-dependent move for him though.