any suggestions?

[damn_river]

$50 NL
.25/.5

Seat 1: MP ($59.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Late ($20.00 in chips)
Seat 4: Late+1 ($42.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Button ($89.75 in chips)
Seat 6: SB ($17.25 in chips)
Seat 7: BB ($11.00 in chips)
Seat 8: UG ($53.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($29.50 in chips)
Seat 10: UG+2 ($59.75 in chips)

Dealt to Hero: Kh Qh

Hero: Call ($0.50)
Late: Call ($0.50)
Button: Call ($0.50)
SB: Call ($0.25)
BB: Check

*** FLOP *** : [ 7d Jh Kc ]

SB: Check
BB: Check
Hero: Bet ($2)
Late: Fold
Button: Raise ($4)
SB: Fold
BB: Fold
Hero: Call ($2)

*** TURN *** : [ 7d Jh Kc ] [ 5h ]

Hero: Check
Button: Bet ($3.50)
Hero: Call ($3.50)

*** RIVER *** : [ 7d Jh Kc 5h ] [ 7h ]

Hero: Check
Button: Bet ($12)
Hero: Raise All-in ($21.50)

dR

[Tilt]

Looks fine to me. I would assume you are up against KJ and play it as you did with these stacks. With deeper stacks I might play it differently by raising the turn and betting out the river. The key is the river, when the potential boat is out there with a deep stack id be more cautious but not in this case.

[soah]

Why would you call the flop raise if you believe you have three outs?

[Wayfare]

Against a reasonable player I make the flop $11 (after his min raise) and check/fold if called or pushed into. I don't know if this guy was reasonable.

Even against monkeys, I definately don't check/raise the river all-in. I don't see what that accomplishes.

[unlucky513]

i agree.. re-raise the flop.

i might have check-raised the turn.

i dont like the check on the river. make a pot-sized bet or more.

[damn_river]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a reasonable player I make the flop $11 (after his min raise) and check/fold if called or pushed into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure i understand this play. Please explain.

dR

[Wayfare]

Ok well you have $30 behind and a relatively small pot / bet on the flop. However you are looking at the prospect of playing two more streets out of position with one pair, which is not a happy place to be in.

Therefore you reraise the flop to "know where you are at" on this flop -- your raise should look very scary to a lot of hands and win the pot right there quite often (against reasonable thinking players). For example, you would probably reraise the flop with KJ. If you are called the opponent almost certainly has you beat, and you can move on to the next hand.

[damn_river]

i am starting to see your point... wouldn't folding the flop be better though? What could he have worth folding to the reraise? The funny thing is, he probably would've folded to the reraise with his j7o. I can't see kj folding to the reraise though.


dR

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you call the flop raise if you believe you have three outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 to go into an 8 dollar pot. You still have that much equity in this pot against KJ:

Ks Js 781 78.89 204 20.61 5 0.51 0.791
Kh Qh 204 20.61 781 78.89 5 0.51 0.209

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Even against monkeys, I definately don't check/raise the river all-in. I don't see what that accomplishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wayfare, this i dont understand. A check here gives the opponent the opportunity to hang himself (which I believe he did). The check gives a weaker hand (a badly played AK, KQ, KT) the chance to bluff as though they have a boat or flush. KJ may bet for value whereas they may fold to a decent river bet. I think c/r the river draws most of their chips. And I think thats what you want with shallow stacks like this it seems pretty unlikely that you are beat here.

Against monkeys I like it. Against stronger players I agree that I wouldnt either. But doint you think it accomplishes something against players who think they can bluff you off a lot of pots?

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you call the flop raise if you believe you have three outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 to go into an 8 dollar pot. You still have that much equity in this pot against KJ:

Ks Js 781 78.89 204 20.61 5 0.51 0.791
Kh Qh 204 20.61 781 78.89 5 0.51 0.209

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to pay again to see the river. And a significant portion of that equity is from the backdoor flush draw, which also involves calling a turn bet in order to complete. On the flop you're getting offered 4:1 when it's 14:1 against hitting on the next card. And even if you do hit, you can't be entirely sure that you're not up against a set.

[damn_river]

in that case, wouldn't it be better to fold?

dR

[Wayfare]

Is a pure bluff calling the raise? That's the only way you are getting value from it.

Calling the $12 is obviously an option.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you call the flop raise if you believe you have three outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 to go into an 8 dollar pot. You still have that much equity in this pot against KJ:

Ks Js 781 78.89 204 20.61 5 0.51 0.791
Kh Qh 204 20.61 781 78.89 5 0.51 0.209

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to pay again to see the river. And a significant portion of that equity is from the backdoor flush draw, which also involves calling a turn bet in order to complete. On the flop you're getting offered 4:1 when it's 14:1 against hitting on the next card. And even if you do hit, you can't be entirely sure that you're not up against a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, sure if I KNEW I were up against KJ I could consider folding, even though I have adequate outs to justify a call. But just because the button min raises I am not automatically giving him credit for two pair or a set.

Per my prginal comment, I put him on KJ after he bets the river. On the flop, even the turn, he could easily have KQ also, and KT, AK, QT are possibilities.

But I disagree that you need odds for just the next card. Recalculate once you get there. Also dont discount the runner flush draw. The implied odds from hitting those are great cause they almost never put you on them even as they give you odds to hit them.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Is a pure bluff calling the raise? That's the only way you are getting value from it.

Calling the $12 is obviously an option.

[/ QUOTE ]

No a pure bluff isnt. But a pair or two pair might feel compelled. Hell at this level the guy holding pocket 4's is often curious if you have the goods.