this one had me banging my head into the wall in frustration.

[bholdr]

this is from memory, so may not be exact:

Prima .25/.50 NL 6 max
UTG: @20$
UTG+1 @40$
Hero 75.25$
Button: 67$
SB: 20$
BB: 35$

Button is very LAG, i suppose, at 6max, i am too
all others are tight passive or loose passive
we are fighting for control of the table.

Hero is dealt QsKc
UTG folds
Utg+1 limps .50
hero limps .50
Button raises $2.50
SB folds .25
BB folds .50
Utg+1 folds
Hero calls $2.50

ok i realize that my limp was pretty, well, limp. but i was 4 tabling and not paing good enough attention. i am now though... that raise looked like a steal, esp since Button and I had been stealing about half of the blinds preflop to this point, and i also thought he'd have to take my call as a defensive manouver

pot is 7.25
flop: 10h Qh 3d
Hero checks
Button bets 4$
hero raises to 11$
Button calls

he never fails to bet in this situation, hence the check raise. but he calls? have him on a draw, now

pot is 32.25
Turn: 8s
Hero bets 30$
Button calls.

now i am very confused. alarm bells going off. set? nah, he would've been more aggressive on the flop. that flop bet looked just like the mechanical steal bets he'd been making all session. i have him on QJ, he is too smart to call that bet with a draw. i am really worried about QT, now..

pot is about 90$
river is a blank.
i push
he calls
pot is about 135$ (owww)

Where is my mistake(s)? he showed AdQd. am i being too aggressive? not enough bet on the flop? i geuss i was going to lose this one no matter what, but i'd like not to repeat this mistake... his play and my read on his style wasn't letting me get away...

<sigh>
help me out here, guys!

[Kaz The Original]

Please don't post results. When he called the turn I was sure he had AQ...

Fold to his raise. If you decide to call, check raising the flop is mandatory, but I think I check fold from there if he calls, or call small bets.

[Garland]

The limp is fine, but you should really fold to the preflop raise. You could be going against two hands which could get you in big trouble like AQ or AK, which will cost you when you both flop top pair. You are also crushed by hands such as AA, KK or QQ, and unlikely to win if you flop an pair over his pocket. The worst part is: you have bad position.

Once, bets the flop and you check-raise and he calls, I wouldn't automatically put him on a draw. While KJ and J9 are a slight possibility (as well as a heart draw), it's also possible he has you crushed with hands such as AQ, KK, AA or TT. I'd shut it down at that point. Even most AQ opponents would be hesitant to put more in the pot in fear of another check-raise.

Backing your stack with top pair non-nut kicker is often a way of going broke quickly in this game. Best way of avoiding this situation: fold to the preflop raise.

Garland

[bholdr]

good points, and thanks for the advice, but if i fold a KQ to this paticular (LAG) player preflop when he bets from the button, i may as well leave, imo. this looked exactly like any number of blatant steals both he and i had been pulling for the previous hour or so, and he tended to limp with his really big hands.
at worst, i thought a small pocket pair was likely. and after he smooth called my check raise, i felt strongly that he felt he was behind at that point- every other time he had TPTK, he bet the pot, hence my pot bet on the turn.

I geuss that my poor position is what really did me in. if i had been on the button in the same situation on the turn i would've folded to a pot bet with QK Q on board instantly. maybe... hand domination has been more and more in the forefront of my thoughts lately...

either way, i probably played this a little more aggressivly than i would've ordinarily, given that i knew that if i broke this guy, that table was MINE- everyone else was short stacked and weak, and a couple of them were buying in for 20, losing and rebuying, repeat. instead, i dropped the ball and he got that pot and i am sure many to follow <sigh>.

tx again, next time i'll check the turn- you're right, he'd probably check behind, at least keeping the pot managablee...

gonna be thinking about this one for a while.

[soah]

Putting your opponent on one specific hand that you can beat while discounting the possibility of numerous hands that crush you is what causes a lot of players to lose their stack.

Given what transpired preflop (which has already been established as less than ideal, but it's not the end of the world), I don't see any need to check-raise the flop. You're either waaaaay ahead or waaaay behind, and if your entire stack goes into the pot I'd be more likely to guess that you're behind. This is a hand you'd like to play a small to mid-size pot with. There are a number of different lines you could take, but I just don't see how check-raising could be one of them. If you're ahead, your opponent is unlikely to have more than a couple of outs. The pot is small; the extra money you lose when you're already behind outweighs the value of protecting against longshot draws when you are ahead.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
this looked exactly like any number of blatant steals both he and i had been pulling for the previous hour or so

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally steals come from open-raising (no limpers), but you know your table and opponent better than I do. I'm also firmly in the camp that steals are rather worthless in no limit.

[ QUOTE ]
but if i fold a KQ to this paticular (LAG) player preflop when he bets from the button,

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd save calling for times when if I flop a hand, I flop a solid hand I'd be unafraid to back my stack against, like AK or a pocket pair...especially out of position.

Garland

[soah]

I had just read this thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1471243&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

before posting my reply here, and I found that I was basically paraphraising the fourth post from that thread. You may find it helpful.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Given what transpired preflop (which has already been established as less than ideal, but it's not the end of the world), I don't see any need to check-raise the flop. You're either waaaaay ahead or waaaay behind, and if your entire stack goes into the pot I'd be more likely to guess that you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup. shoulda seen this. maybe i was getting too eager to get this guy...

[Pepsquad]

pot is 7.25
flop: 10h Qh 3d
Hero checks
Button bets 4$
hero raises to 11$
Button calls

he never fails to bet in this situation, hence the check raise. but he calls? have him on a draw, now.

------------------------------

This is where I would have slowed down. Betting $4 and cold-calling another $7!?! You're either facing an unusually strong draw or he has a hand of some sort. Most LAG's on a draw will bet/fold to your raise here in my experience.