Wired Jokers
01-03-2005, 08:09 PM
I'm not sure where to post this, so I'm doing it here figuring the MTT gurus would explain it to me. If this is violating any copyright rules by 2+2, please feel free to bust. This problem (Hand 7-7) occurs on p. 372 of HOH. Although the section deals with betting on the turn and river, I am having difficulty understanding the flop action. To summarize:
Hero is BB holding Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif. Blinds are 30/60 in the middle of an online tournament. No reads on any of the eight players at the table. Hero has 2000 in chips (although no details are given on average stack size for remainder of tourney participants)
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls 60, MP2 folds, CO calls 60, Button calls 60, SB completes for 30 more, Hero checks. Five players to the flop, pot $300.
Flop: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB bets 130. Recommended action of Hero is to call. Admittedly, HOH says this is a call that will make you feel icky, but it is the best risk-reward ratio.
Question: how is this call even close to the best play? By calling, the following occurs:
1) You fail to protect or define your hand.
2) You are letting three opponents, all with positon on you, draw to better pot odds. In fact, it could be argued w/implied odds that you are giving the rest of the field odds to draw to middle or bottom pair with top kicker.
3) You have put yourself in poor position to fight for the pot when a likely brick comes on the turn.
Since everyone limped, you must play tighter. SB could have a 10 with a better kicker, a flush draw, two pair, or a straight draw. Assume he is not bluffing. Wouldn't the best play either be to raise the size of the pot (preferred) or to fold (since pot is not big, and your hand is vulnerable)? Although you hit top pair with decent kicker, you can't like your hand that much, and something must be done to protect it. Calling does nothing of the kind.
Most likely, with a pot-sized raise, you are going to find out something about your hand. Either you are reraised behind you, or everyone folds. If reraised, you can either let go or call (if odds are there) to see if you improve on 4th street. If everyone folds, and SB calls then checks the turn, well, that tells you something as well, right? Bonus - you get position on the remaining player.
Or am I just not getting it - a limit player that belongs in limit ring games, and not in NL tourneys? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Hero is BB holding Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif. Blinds are 30/60 in the middle of an online tournament. No reads on any of the eight players at the table. Hero has 2000 in chips (although no details are given on average stack size for remainder of tourney participants)
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls 60, MP2 folds, CO calls 60, Button calls 60, SB completes for 30 more, Hero checks. Five players to the flop, pot $300.
Flop: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB bets 130. Recommended action of Hero is to call. Admittedly, HOH says this is a call that will make you feel icky, but it is the best risk-reward ratio.
Question: how is this call even close to the best play? By calling, the following occurs:
1) You fail to protect or define your hand.
2) You are letting three opponents, all with positon on you, draw to better pot odds. In fact, it could be argued w/implied odds that you are giving the rest of the field odds to draw to middle or bottom pair with top kicker.
3) You have put yourself in poor position to fight for the pot when a likely brick comes on the turn.
Since everyone limped, you must play tighter. SB could have a 10 with a better kicker, a flush draw, two pair, or a straight draw. Assume he is not bluffing. Wouldn't the best play either be to raise the size of the pot (preferred) or to fold (since pot is not big, and your hand is vulnerable)? Although you hit top pair with decent kicker, you can't like your hand that much, and something must be done to protect it. Calling does nothing of the kind.
Most likely, with a pot-sized raise, you are going to find out something about your hand. Either you are reraised behind you, or everyone folds. If reraised, you can either let go or call (if odds are there) to see if you improve on 4th street. If everyone folds, and SB calls then checks the turn, well, that tells you something as well, right? Bonus - you get position on the remaining player.
Or am I just not getting it - a limit player that belongs in limit ring games, and not in NL tourneys? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif