Adventures with 33 part 1

[Greg J]

My main concern with this hand is the turn call. On this ragged board I'm thinking going for overcall is best here.

Of course you are free to comment on all streets. All opponents are pretty bleh -- the table is tighter than most but still profitable enough to make a 33 limp +EV.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Greg is UTG with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Greg calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Greg checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Greg calls, CO folds, Button folds.

River: (4.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Greg raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Greg caps</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Good cap, or is it time to start seeing monsters?

[DemonDeac Holding Rockets]

why no raise turn? still two players behind you who could possible have flush draw, protect hand

[Greg J]

True, but the pot is so small flush draws are not getting proper odds to call -- at least not immediately, they might with the implied odds. they are getting 3.25 to 1 and need 4:1 to call correctly. Still, with implied odds, it will still probably be profitable for flush draws to call, where a raise by me would totally blast them out of the pot, or make them make a hug mistake by calling.

Really, I just wanted to build a pot -- I wanted them to stay in. Maybe that was not the right move.

[tiltaholic]

I don't think it's a horrible play, and I'm not really afraid of a flush draw. I think I like it. But I'd likely raise the turn anyway since the potential payoff is bigger if they both cold call 2 and that is not extremely unlikely at party .5/1. Or to rephrase, if I thought they were capable of calling two cold, I'd raise the turn. In reality, I wouldn't be smart enough to think of getting overcalls and would raise it automatically when I saw my set.

I'd cap the river and be pissed if I lost. Could easily be a BB special or another 2-pair he picked up on the turn or river.
-t

[antidan444]

You're not getting the flush draw out on Party, whether they have the odds to draw to it or not (at least most players aren't pitching it), so going for overcards (edit: err, overcalls) vs. raising the turn comes down to which will get the most money in the pot most often. In my opinion, raising here will do that ... there are just too many people who will call two cold drawing dead here.

I like the river cap (unless he's a total rock who simply would not 3-bet the river without the nuts) ... he's most likely just getting frisky with two pair. If he has 45, so it goes. Just calling the turn, IMO, commits you to capping the river ... there's no way he can put you on your hand.

[WSOP Bound]

Actually the odds for the flush draw are worse then 4:1 because any the Qd and 2d give you the boat. Therefore they need to be getting 5.5:1 in order to make a profitable call. The implied odds make it close, assuming that everyone calls the turn and call a bet on the river they will be getting 10.25:2. Even there they are a little shy on having the right odds. IMO it's best to go for the overcalls and let them make the mistake of calling. Of course, all of this even assumes that there is a flush draw out there to be calling, which I see no reason to belive.

[WSOP Bound]

I don't think that raising gets more money in the pot in most situations. This turn bet could be a bluff or could be betting on a pair here. Raising is likely to shut down a weak pair or even weak two pair hands. If this player has a weak Q or even the case 3 your gonna shut him down by raising. Calling might get the overcalls and also allows you to let him bet into you again on the river where you can raise. Either way you are likely to get 3BB from the BB in most hands, but if you call you may drag two more from the players behind you.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the odds for the flush draw are worse then 4:1 because any the Qd and 2d give you the boat. Therefore they need to be getting 5.5:1 in order to make a profitable call. The implied odds make it close, assuming that everyone calls the turn and call a bet on the river they will be getting 10.25:2. Even there they are a little shy on having the right odds. IMO it's best to go for the overcalls and let them make the mistake of calling. Of course, all of this even assumes that there is a flush draw out there to be calling, which I see no reason to belive.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks much for the excellent responce.

[Kasumeat]

I like your play here. This pot is tiny, so slowplaying is fine.

[Hack]

Good cap. The only straight possible is 2-6, and that means BB bet out with 45? Doubtful.

The only thing you could worry about is a higher flopped set, but that seems pretty unlikely.

I like it.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
True, but the pot is so small flush draws are not getting proper odds to call -- at least not immediately, they might with the implied odds. they are getting 3.25 to 1 and need 4:1 to call correctly. Still, with implied odds, it will still probably be profitable for flush draws to call, where a raise by me would totally blast them out of the pot, or make them make a hug mistake by calling.

Really, I just wanted to build a pot -- I wanted them to stay in. Maybe that was not the right move.

[/ QUOTE ]

the 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif are actually reverse-implied for a flush draw, they only have 7 clean diamond outs

its a sml pot and the flush draw is the only likely draw, slowplaying is fine here, let them overcall