Anyone still beating the Party $10+1?

[FlopComesBricks]

I was doing really well in these before, following the advice on this forum, now I simply cannot sustain a win rate. I'm basically breaking even and its driving me nuts. Its nothing to do with my play though.

Every single one I play these days has 6+ players going into Level 4 and beyond. The last one I played had 6 players at level 8!!

This used to happen occasionally but now it seems the norm. It happens no matter what time of day I play at too.

Is anyone else seeing this or is it just some freak of luck that I'm constantly stuck at these tables?

[bigredlemon]

You aren't the only one. The typical 10+1er has really tightend up lately. Now, you have to outplay them instead of just being tight.

[adanthar]

I haven't played them or seen my GF play them lately but if this is true (may or may not be true) and long term I would guess the Steps are sucking the really big fish out.

FWIW the 50's are softer than they've ever been.

[VanVeen]

I've been 8-tabling $10 and $20 SNGs after cashing out my Empire roll and my only observation thus far is, "how can a 50% ROI not be sustainable in these?". The bubble play is comically inept. I see players regularly folding their blinds (200/400) to short stacks (say, T650) or bluffing into dry pots when a short stack is all-in with four players left. They're all too willing to let me steal my way from short stack to first place without bothering to call me, and whenever I AM called, it's by some ridiculous hand like Q7s or JTo.

They're tighter, sure, but they're as easy (easier?) as ever.

[gusly]

I'm still winning, but it takes a lot more effort. Yesterday I had two in a row go all the way to Level 12. Occasionally I'll run into a quick easy one, but I don't count on that anymore.

I think Stars is easier at this level now. Used to be the other way around for me.

[FlopComesBricks]

VanVeen:

Well, no offense but I played you the other night and your play was terrible. You were pushing all-in first in in the first and 2nd level.. to win what, 30 and 35 chips? You busted out when your AKo was called by KQ and you got outdrawn.

Is that some sort of tactic of yours? Go all-in with a top-hand and hope to get called by a poor player with a lesser hand and then hope to double-up?

[bigredlemon]

8 tabing?

PP only lets me open at most 4 tables at any one time. Please share your wonderful secret to bypassing this. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[VanVeen]

Yeah, I absolutely hate being called by hands I dominate.

Why I'm pushing all-in there should be obvious: worse/dominated hands call often enough (ALL THE TIME) that the play has positive expectation, especially when one considers how easy it is to make the money after doubling early, i.e. I like having a big stack.

My putative 'terrible play' has me at a ~55% ROI after 250 SNGs in two days. Thank you for the critique!

[VanVeen]

I play on both Party and Empire at the same time.

Wow.

[rusty JEDI]

[ QUOTE ]


My putative 'terrible play' has me at a ~55% ROI after 250 SNGs in two days. Thank you for the critique!

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you still in the $10 + $1's?

Step up and trim some games.

rJ

[Mr_J]

[ QUOTE ]
especially when one considers how easy it is to make the money after doubling early

[/ QUOTE ]

Doubling up early doesn't make as much difference as you think. Larger stacks only become an advantage when blinds are worth stealing anyway (lvl 4).

[VanVeen]

Well, I like to double up early for a few reasons, some of them unrelated to my theoretical expectation in the actual SnG (re: my, er, 'attentional bandwidth' around the bubble when I'm 6-8 tabling).

[YourFoxyGrandma]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I absolutely hate being called by hands I dominate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah man. I hate winning too.

[daboze]

No matter what you say, pushing into a $30 pot in level 1 is a terrible play. There is just no value in taking a coinflip at this point if you are a decent player.

Yes, you may get a call where you are in a dominating position. But you will also often get called when you are an underdog (any pair), or when you are dominated (AA,KK).

If you have attention problems then maybe you shouldn't be multi-tabling.

[MarkyMark]

Are you using two identities and thus, infringe upon Terms&Conditions of Party/Empire? Are you also using two computers with seperate IPs?

[Jason Strasser]

The key word in the title is still. Most people who actually beat the party 11 arent still playing it.

[brad the fish]

I'm still beating it - but only at 20% ROI, but I'm in the process of switching to 20+2's... so I'm alternating them right now.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
The key word in the title is still. Most people who actually beat the party 11 arent still playing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beat them, and still play them. I figure if I can sustain 50% ROI 4-tabling $10+1s, and am improving my game, I would rather continue doing that than begin single-tabling $20+2s. I have the bankroll to move up but I am an innately conservative person (at least when it comes to $$ -- I'll fling chips around with abandon).

I've only been playing a few months on this buy-in, though, and I'm sure I will move up at some point.

[Mr_J]

Assuming 1k chips and you double up first hand:

Your EV with 2k chips: 18.44%
Everyone else (1k): 10.19%

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
VanVeen:

Well, no offense but I played you the other night and your play was terrible. You were pushing all-in first in in the first and 2nd level.. to win what, 30 and 35 chips? You busted out when your AKo was called by KQ and you got outdrawn.

Is that some sort of tactic of yours? Go all-in with a top-hand and hope to get called by a poor player with a lesser hand and then hope to double-up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this too, although I usually do it with AA and KK rather than AK, and only if I haven't already folded enough hands to have a tight table image. You will get called more than you think.

As far as the benefit of doubling up early: sure, it doesn't really let you bully the table (because the blinds aren't big enough to be worth stealing), but you still have twice as many chips! Doubling your stack nearly doubles your equity at any limit.

[assron]

I took about a month off recently, b/c I was very busy at work and travelling, and decided to start back up playing the lower limit games - I usually play 109's. I couldnt beat the 11 game, I'm not going to lie. It might have been the rust on my game, or me not taking the game as seriously as I needed to. I was surprised though, I used to beat the crap out of the 11 and 22 games when I played them regularly.

11 player bets make very little sense to me a lot of the time, and I have a harder time figuring out where I am in the hand. I cant get the folds that I need to get in key situations, and often some lucky player has quadrupled up on garbage before I've even made a winning hand. Lower games reward you for being lucky and ballsy early -- I remembered that always working for me when I played these games. Things like shoving AK in level 1 are actually good plays imo, but I refuse to play the game like that now, since I know better. A few nights ago, I just said screw it and moved back up to my usual level though, and it's been much easier for me since.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you using two identities and thus, infringe upon Terms&Conditions of Party/Empire? Are you also using two computers with seperate IPs?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're new around these parts, aren't you?

[MarkyMark]

I´m new on this board, as you can see, so if somewhere a way around the restriction to have a Party and an Empire account at the same time has been posted, I have not read it so far.

I have tried to create a PP account and already own an Empire Account. I couldn´t create one on Party. Even after mailing them and asking if it would be possible, they refused and said it would be against their T&Cs.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
so if somewhere a way around the restriction to have a Party and an Empire account at the same time has been posted, I have not read it so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been several threads on the Internet Forum in the last couple of days about how to open accounts at all the Party skins. Just go there and scroll through recent threads.

[ProfessorNo2]

I was having a hard time figuring out why I wasn't beating these as consistently as I had been in the past, but I had a moment of clarity:

I was trying to make too many 'plays'. Play these things straight up, i.e. betting when you think you have the best of it, and you'll still beat them. The problem is there ARE STILL a ton of fish who are incapable of laying down a good hand. Bluffs and semi-bluffs do not pay in these games.

Also, stay away from classic 2nd best hands (KQ, KJ, AT) in the early levels. I'll occasionally play these from late position, but I'll quickly get away from them if I don't flop a monster.

You get to see 30 hands before the blinds move to 50/100. You should get at least one group 1 hand in 30. I'll often only play 1 or 2 hands before level 4.

It's easy to get cocky playing these and I bet that's what many of us fell victim to. Don't be fancy. You can't bluff people who aren't paying attention.

[TomCollins]

The 50s have been really soft lately, but last night was rediculous. I had people playing 80% of their hands!

[Mons]

I am currently beating the $10+1 and I think those unable to beat it are either novice players or better skilled players who don't make adjustments when they move down. It's very ABC 'best hand wins' poker.

[ThorGoT]

After several very high alcohol-content beers last night, I wisely refrained from playing my usual game . . . a definite +EV move. Instead, I quad-tabled $10+1s . . . essentially neutral EV, based on past experience, as long as you don't do stupid things. And commented in the chat box in each game, at length, about how blitzed I was . . . negative $EV, I suspect, but positive funEV. Ultimately, won two games, OOM in the other two. Then I passed out on the couch with the radio and lights on until 2:30 a.m., got up and went to bed. Statistically meaningless, but fun.

[microbet]

"My putative 'terrible play' has me at a ~55% ROI after 250 SNGs in two days. Thank you for the critique!"

250 in 2 days!!!

[bigredlemon]

It seems that 1/2 the party games get super-tight once you go pass 3am. I just finished a game where the entire table folded to the BB more than 50% of the time at level 1 through 2! The other 40% of the time, there'll be 1 or 2 other limpers vs BB, and a min bet will get everyone to fold.

Stealing the blinds at level 1-2 had suddently become a viable strategy!

[kevstreet]

I'm happy you started this thread. I've been thinking to myself that the $10s have really tightened up lately. In fact, I've actually made comments during SnGs stating this and always have replies in agreement. I'm not surprised at all to see a full table in level 3, this would have been an anomaly months ago.

[PE101]

My observation is that they're tighter but more passive.

[QuadsOverQuads]

Can't speak to the NL side, but the limit SNGs have gotten *much* tighter (at least up to the 20s, which is as high as I usually play). A couple days ago, I had one $5 SNG go 105 hands before we finally got down to final 3. Did I mention that this was a FIVE DOLLAR SNG? At Party? It still boggles my mind.

And why was I playing at the 5s, you might ask? Because, after a $1200 run over Christmastime at the 10s and 20s, I noticed that we were suddenly hitting level 5 with 6 or more players still in most of the time. And I knew most of them. And most of them knew me. So, I decided to try and find out where all the fish had gone. Clearly, they hadn't gone to that game /images/graemlins/smile.gif


q/q

[adanthar]

As far as the Party limit SNG's are concerned, I was teaching a buddy about the NL's last night when he accidentally joined a 50 limit game instead.

At one point, after one EP limper with 50/100 blinds, I had him raise ATs from the CO. The blinds folded and EP called.

The flop was Txx, 2 diamonds, the EP limper bet, then 3 bet my friend's raise, called the flop cap, bet the rag diamond turn and went all in on the rag diamond river. My friend made the crying call only to discover the limper's hand was AQo, no diamonds.

If they didn't take so long and weren't sort of a dead end I'd quad table them all day.