Ugh. Couldn't get away. help.

[Jon34]

Hero is in the BB w/ AA.
In retrospect his hand made sense, but I fell for the straightforward/weak play hook line and sinker and put him on AK which obviously didnt make sense from his preflop action. This is why I hate aces. Do you fold on the flop?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG+1 ($99.45)
<font color="#C00000">MP1 ($230.75)</font>
MP2 ($174)
CO ($233.75)
Button ($314.20)
SB ($201.95)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($212.85)</font>
UTG ($81.90)

Preflop:
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $8</font>, MP1 calls $6, MP2 calls $6, Button calls $6.

Flop: ($33) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $60</font>, MP2 folds, Button folds, BB calls $30.

Turn: ($153) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $42</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $144.85</font>, MP1 calls $102.85.

River: ($442.70) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $442.70

[fl0w]

KK, right?

Man that's a really hard spot, I don't think I'd be able to lay that down myself, given the course of the action.
One might think he played 'em tricky preflop...

[mr pink]

ugggh... guessing a set. i'd have raised more preflop after 3 limpers, i did something similar like a week ago w/ kings. i think you gotta make it like $12 or $14 preflop... i might be wrong though.

i dont know how you get away from this though either the way you played it. you gotta be thinking set when you get miniraised here, i think i'd reraise the flop to see where he's at w/ his hand. just smooth calling the raise, then checking the turn to him gives you nothing as to how strong he is. he could just have top pair and was testing you or he could have a monster. of course i'm still new to nl and i could be really off base. if i'm wrong, somebody help me out.

peace - jeff

[Jon34]

No, it was 77. 77 makes sense, as he limped preflop, and called the raise. The minraise on the flop made me groan, but a king is also enough of a possibility here that folding does not really seem like an option. On the turn his bet looked a little weak, so I figured a push was better than a call.

I'd like to note that I really like the villain's line here. I love playing sets in this manner, for exactly the reason it worked against me. Its so hard to get away from AK or AA here.

Soah, any thoughts? thanks.

[mr pink]

yeah, he ties you to the pot w/ that miniraise. i still think a flop reraise would have been better, maybe make it like another 50 (totally arbitrary number) on top of the 60, if he does anything but fold, i think it's safe to assume he's holding more than top pair.

peace - jeff

[Jon34]

you're probably right about the flop play. I should have reraised him. That said, I think betting the full pot might have been unneccessary as well, given how ragged the flop was. 25 should have been enough, and that helps decrease the escalation.

Preflop I'm still struggling with. Lately, I've only been raising 4x, as I hate when my bet size indicates my hand. Also, I find that raising more in that spot usually gets zero action. In fact a few hands earlier I was in the same spot with kings, in the BB with a few limps to me, raised to 10, and got no action. Though winning a small pot is better than losing a big one.
If there has been a minraise or a very large number of limpers, I tend to raise more, so to me this was a border line case. after 3 limpers I figured my raise would keep 1 or 2, but I got all 3.

[Jon34]

Yeah, that line saves me about $100 on this hand unless I spike the ace. Its just a tough/non-intuitive play to make, reraising with 1 pair. But that is still better than losing your stack. Thanks.

[mr pink]

dude, i might be wrong here... i'm just offering up what i think the right play is. i've used the mini-raise w/ a set before so i'm usually supicious of it whenever used against me.

i think i'd still bet the pot on that flop though.

peace - jeff

[BobboFitos]

Jon, you took an interesting line on the turn by check raising all in.

Haven't read other replies, maybe they're good stuff, but you didn't raise enough pf. After 3 callers, and the small blind and your big blind, there is 9$ in the pot, and you only make it 6 more. I'd be inclined to raise more from the BB.

The min raise on the flop is scary... No draws, K 7 3 r is as nice as they come. If you call that your stack is going in o nthe turn or river.

I might call that with the intention of stop &amp; going, basically saying "Ok, I'm going to lose my money to a set, but I want to get as much possible value from top pair," and the best way to do that if fire a small bet on the turn and bet some more on the river.

If you're raised again after a small turn bet (like if you put 80 out there, a little more than half the pot) I think you can fold if he pushes in, simply because it looks like you're pot committed, but if he really has a set, and thats the only hand (barring a maniac) which could realistically raise the flop + turn, you are NOT getting priced in vs a 2 outer.

If he had a set he should've smooth called the flop...

Also, you bet too much on the flop. Unless you can expect AK to limp call pf, or KQ to limp / call a raise, (and subsequently call big bets on the flop) you are losing value. Since there aren't any draws I'd bet about 16 here I think.

Hope it worked out, but I can't really see how it did.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
No, it was 77. 77 makes sense, as he limped preflop, and called the raise. The minraise on the flop made me groan, but a king is also enough of a possibility here that folding does not really seem like an option. On the turn his bet looked a little weak, so I figured a push was better than a call.

I'd like to note that I really like the villain's line here. I love playing sets in this manner, for exactly the reason it worked against me. Its so hard to get away from AK or AA here.

Soah, any thoughts? thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like his line. I would've smooth called the flop looking to trap anyone in behind him who might have a king.

Plus it keeps you in the lead, and since you bet so much on the flop, the pot is big enough where you would be PCed to calling my all in on the turn.

If anyone else comes along it's just gravy, as you have a very low outdraw %

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
i think i'd still bet the pot on that flop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

K 7 3 r.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????????? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[mr pink]

cause i like to bet the pot... no but seriously, you're right and i am wrong. still learning here boss.

peace - jeff

[Wayfare]

Doesn't look like you're trying to "get away" from anything in this hand.

[mythrilfox]

Min-raise = monster.
Min-raise = monster.
Min-raise = monster.

But if you really want to find out for sure, you can push all-in.

The question is, do I fold on the flop just because some chump min-raised me? Yeah, I do. What else could he have? Unless you've labeled him as a tricky aggressive player (unlikely on an unknown), the only thing you beat here is KQ, and that's a longshot since even newbs aren't gonna open-limp with KQ.

[soah]

If you aren't going to let go of unimproved aces postflop then you MUST raise a lot more preflop. You're making people call $6 more when you have $200 left. Even against a single opponent you've given terrific odds to try for a set. With multiple opponents the situation for you becomes even worse.

On the flop, the only reason to bet full pot would be if you think that there is absolutely no way that anyone will call or raise you unless they can beat top pair. That way you can get away from the hand cheaply. That obviously wasn't your plan though so I don't understand the bet. It's a drawless board and your opponents are about 90% sure that you have a big pair.

Obviously what to do when raised depends on your opponent and what levels he is thinking at. To borrow a line from Ciaffone, you've represented a pretty specific type of hand (AK/AA) here and there are no draws, so your opponent either doesn't believe you have what you're representing, or he can beat it. From reading the hand history we obviously can't tell you which is the case. But if you do think you're ahead then I like the turn check-raise. But just remember... it's IF you are ahead. I'm having a hard time coming up with hands that a reasonable player would raise you with on the flop which you can beat, unless he's seen you getting waaaaay out of line a lot on previous hands. (But of course, I don't know if your opponent was reasonable...)

[Siawyn]

This is another of those interesting AA hands; I posted one just recently where I was the person with the set who busted AA for her entire stack.

The minraise on the flop is really a major danger signal. You did not raise nearly enough preflop, so pocket pairs are going to be calling, looking to bust your stack. If an A or a K flops, and you get minraised, then the person is basically telling you they can beat AK. It would be a lot more likely for me to lose more if the flop did not have the K on it. What makes this more difficult is you're completely out of position. Since the flop does not have a flush or straight draw on it, perhaps I bet a little less on the flop, I might peel one off if I get min-raised, but if I check and face a large bet on the turn I'm probably dumping it here.

You do have to raise more preflop with this. You're in the big blind, so you're marked with a big hand anyways. Make it expensive for them.