New to limit... Few questionable 3/6 hands? [Archive]

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mythrilfox

01-01-2005, 05:30 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $3.
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

I wasn't sure if this call was correct. I had to call $3 and there was already $20 in the pot so I called.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP1 raises, CO calls, Hero calls.

I just called here in order to suck MP1 into the pot, but after he raised I was afraid of a higher flush. Player was unknown at this point. I decided that the best compromise between getting value out of the flush and saving myself from a higher flush was to call here and lead the river and call a raise...

River: (11.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Which I did.

Final Pot: 15.66 BB

In this hand the Villain (SB) is the same as MP1 from hand 1. I didn't want to give away the results to hand 1, but it's almost essential for my thought process on this hand, so ... suffice it to say this dude tends to overplay hands from time to time.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (7 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

After he capped, I started getting a little afraid, because I noticed from his play that he was certainly loose enough here to have a 3. Would he really cap with anything else? I'm not sure, I hadn't fully put him to the test until this hand, but I decided he was loose enough to pay off.

River: (19 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Is this raise correct?

Flop: (8.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.16 BB

I dunno, I was like, totally lost on the last hand. At first I thought he probably had AJ since that's the only thing that would play it like this, but then I realized he would have waited to c/r the turn with a flopped two pair. I really wasn't sure what to do... so whenever I'm in doubt I just call down.

me454555

01-01-2005, 05:54 PM

Hand 1:
PF: Fold
Flop: Flop is fine b/c the pf raise came from UTG.
Turn: Bet out here, whats the point of getting fancy b/c the flop bet came from CO. It also gives you a better to figure out where you are.
River. Once it's check raised here on the turn, I don't want to get raised on the river by a larger flush so I'm just calling.

Hand 2:
Well played, I play it the same way.

Hand 3:

I play it the same way and hope he doesn't have AJ

mythrilfox

01-01-2005, 06:06 PM

On Hand 1, how does who made the bet matter? Because CO is more likely to have something worth calling me down? And because I am more likely to only have to put in 1 SB on the flop?

If UTG bet out, how would that change my action?

me454555

01-01-2005, 06:49 PM

In the first hand, all you have is a 4 flush w/out an overcard. Discoutning running 7s or Ts, the only way you're going to win this pot is by hitting the flush.

The flop bet came from CO. There were 2 people in between you and CO. Would you rather play this pot heads up or against 3 others? My guess is against 3 others. If you checkraised the flop, you'd be facing both players w/calling 2 bets cold, a proposition they might not like. This could cause them both to fold. Since your hand plays very well multiway, I don't think you want this to happen.

Had the flop bet come from UTG, the player on your imediate left, you coud check raise and trap the entire field for 1 more bet b/c they wouldn't likely fold b/c they have already put in one bet. By checkraising and getting 3 callers, you are actually betting for value assuming your flush outs are good. You are only about 2:1 against hitting your flush and you're getting 3:1 on this bet. This increases your expectation b/c you have a high pot equity here.

ggbman

01-01-2005, 06:59 PM

Hand 1, i would re-raise the turn. A bigger flush is possible, but the play at 3-6 is poor enough that it could be a lot of other hands. There aren't too many hands that beat you, so i throw in another raise.

Hand 2 you played perfectly.

Hand 3 was good as well. The three bet is good preflop, i would be tempted to raise the turn because so many 3-6 players overplay weak aces, but calling down is fine also. I think you had the best hand here though. results coming soon?

bisonbison

01-01-2005, 07:26 PM

Hand 1: bet the turn.

Hand 2: Assuming you're confident in your read, this is fine.

Hand 3: Fold preflop.

LImitPlayer

01-01-2005, 07:43 PM

BisonBison, just curious, You really would fold AQ to a MP raiser preflop? I've seen your posts and respect your playing ability but that seems kinda weak-tight to me.

Why wouldn't your 3-bet this and try to get the hand heads up? Kinda curious as to your reasoning in folding this preflop.

If there was no posssibility in getting this heads up then I would call that bet preflop unless it was 3 bet. I think a 3-bet is the only thing that's getting me to fold AQ when I have position preflop. (Unless the player is a rock and I have a solid read on his hand)

After reading my reply I ralized it might look like I called you weak tight, which you are not.
Trying to clear up a misunderstanding before it occurs.

mythrilfox

01-01-2005, 08:21 PM

Yeah, I'd like clarification on bison's AQ fold as well /images/graemlins/smile.gif I just thought that it was worth a raise since I'd have raised worse hands from his position, and AQ could very well have him beat.

Anyway...
Hand 1: Villain had Q2 and hit two pair on the turn and was grossly overplaying.
Hand 2: Villain (same guy from 1) had A3 and hit trips on the turn.
Hand 3: Villain had AK. Surprised me since he didn't cap PF.

bisonbison

01-01-2005, 08:23 PM

Give me a decent player's MP raising standards with a limper already in. I mean specifically, list them out.

AA
KK
AKo
AKs...

mythrilfox

01-01-2005, 08:41 PM

Most players on 3/6 aren't decent.
Secondly, I'd probably raise with AJo/s, KQo/s, 99-JJ, from his position. Is that poor? Moreover, can we really give him credit for being tight enough to only raise QQ-AA and AK? And are you saying that without the limper this turns from a fold to a 3-bet? The limper seems almost irrelevant; he's almost assuredly open-limping with a low pp.

WannaGoPro

01-01-2005, 09:04 PM

I would raise with the following in MP with a limper already in.

AA KK QQ JJ 1010 99 possibly 88
AKS AK AQs AQ AJs AJ A10S KQs KQ KJs

Of these hands I am dominated by 5(if I were to call with my AQ): AA KK QQ AKs AK
And I dominate 6: AJs AJ A10s KQs KQ KJs
the other 5: JJ 1010 99 88 and AQs are basicly coin flips.

Disclaimer: I would only raise 88 here if the limper was a very weak player.

I think this situation warrants a call, curious as to what others think?

bisonbison

01-01-2005, 09:10 PM

Since you haven't provided a read on the raiser, I suggested decent because they'll be raising more than your average player. AQo is actually better against a decent player than against an average one.

And against a decent one? AQo has 48% equity against a player who'll raise AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs-KJs, AKo-AJo, and KQo here, and runs into all sorts of ugly reverse implied odds scenarios.

LImitPlayer

01-01-2005, 09:17 PM

I have pretty much the same raisng standards as wanna with the exception of 88.

If the limper was a rock he would've raise preflop as he would have a premium hand, the fact that he didnt raise preflop means that I probably dominate the limper and I have a slight edge with the raiser with my AQ as I am ahead of 6 possible hands and behind the other 5.

Assuming the limper isn't slowplaying and the fact that I have position makes this a standard call for me.

A read on the raiser would help as well.

Spook

01-01-2005, 11:18 PM

I think the problem with three betting here is either you make your hand and he doesn't you only win a minimal amount. Or you are dominated and will make a lot of second best hands and loss a decent amount of money with great calling odds.

DavidC

01-09-2005, 07:20 AM

What would you guys think of betting out the turn in hand 1?

Do you think CO would have raised? If so, this gives you a good opportunity to three-bet with the flush.

Carmine

01-09-2005, 10:23 AM

Hand 1: Why are we not betting out on the flop with a four flush and 4 opponents? Bet out on turn too.

Hand 2: Good.

Hand 3: I very rarly see the point of 3-betting AQo unless against very loose or maniac players. I also don't agree with the suggestion to fold it, however, unless the raiser is very tight or if I'm in a 3-bet/cap situation before it gets to me.

winky51

01-09-2005, 11:27 AM

Did not see results yet but here is my 2 cents.

I would say your play depends on your villian. There are some players out there that are simply morons and don't realize threats on the table. This is what you have to watch out for. They hit 2 pair with a straight on board they still raise. So....

Hand #1: I would say reraise here on the turn. The fact that he posted to come into the pot tells he has has a poor hand. Bad players hate posting then having to fold their post. The chance that he has 2 hearts is tiny so reraise that turn and make it expensive for those holding the single A or K to pay to draw. The possible hands I see for his raise are 22, 55, K2, K5, maybe Q2 or Q5.

HAND #2: There are 2 interesting things here. You got raised on the turn with one person left to act and that one person cold called. If this was headsup I would say reraise but in this case I would have called down. Probably hands in the SB? AQ, A3 (unlikely) QQ-33, bluff with a flush draw. But its tough to place him on A3 because you have 2 As. But the fact this guy is raising you and someone else says something. I would feel he has the A3 or K3s.

HAND #3: 1st off I don't like playing the trap hand AQ behind a raiser. In a tighter game it can be done becuase if Ak missed the flop he will fold to your PF reraise and flop bet. But here in moron land this is not the case most of the time. They will call you down with Ace high. This guy called you and then check raised you on the flop. What does that tell us: AK, AQ, AJ, ATs, JJ, VERY unlikely AA. More then half you are beaten. Also you have no diamond. To me him check raising you tells me he has you beat. He might check raise you on the turn but then what if you fold? Well now he has lost some money. Check raising on the flop keeps you in and pays him off. I probably would have reraised on the flop. If he caps you can call then fold the turn, LOSE 2 BB. If he calls you check the turn after him and call the river, LOSE 2.5 BB. This is all if he has you beat. If he has AQ then your tied. Your way you are losing 3 BBs.