this laydown was automatic for me

[mike l.]

20-40 great game live. i had KK ep. i limp. because there's a guy on the button who's raising every hand (but not 3 betting every hand). he raises. bb fish calls, i 3 bet, button caps, we call. 3 of us.

the flop is QT3 rainbow. bb bets, i call hoping button will raise. button just calls.

the turn is a 6 putting two clubs out there. bb bets, i raise, button folds, bb calls. and lines up 8 chips like he's ready to call my next bet. now time for bb: he is a fish. he plays a lot of hands. like 80-90% of his hands. he puts in multiple bets drawing thin or dead. he is fairly aggressive but not tricky or smart or random. he does not do laydowns, especially against me. already earlier in the session he called me down every street with K high on a 229-T-Q board. at this point i put him on: a Q, a T, two weak pair, a little pair with an A, AK, some other biggish A that has a gutshot or a pair already, a club flush draw alone or in tandem with any of the hands above, that's about it. oh wait he could have KJ for the straight draw.

now the Ac falls and bb suddenly jolts up in his seat and clumsily (not fake and forcefully, but certainly confidently) bets the 8 chips he had lined up to call with. his eyes kind of roll like he is dizzy or swooning. he holds his cards out in the same manner that he always does when he has a very good hand on the showdown and he is excited and ready to show it. this is not a reverse tell. this is not Q9 figuring oh well i was gonna call so i might as well bet. this is not a move. i muck quickly.

just wanted to share. this post may serve mulitple purposes.

[Rushmore]

I don't think that how you play KK in EP can be dictated by what you believe the button might or might not do.

Secondly, I'm raising the flop every time. There are three players for a preflop cap. Time to go after the pot with your one pair.

All of this said, it doesn't look like any of it would have helped you here.

Based on your tone of extreme confidence in your read on the bb, it sure looks like you can make this laydown.

You would almost invariably have a call otherwise.

[etizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that how you play KK in EP can be dictated by what you believe the button might or might not do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you want the most people putting in the most money before the flop?

[mike l.]

"Secondly, I'm raising the flop every time. There are three players for a preflop cap. Time to go after the pot with your one pair."

by calling the flop bet (and it was an unexpected flop bet) i was able to raise the turn when a safe card came and push the button off some 2, 4, and 5 out hands as well as random hands with a lone A. (btw button claimed he folded an A when the hand was over, and there is no reason not to believe him given everything i know about his character).

that's how you go after a big pot sometimes. you wait for the turn. button would not fold any of those hands for two small bets on the flop or for one bet on the turn. and if i had shown strength on the flop, it would have likely been checked to me on the turn.

[mike l.]

"might or might not do."

there's a difference between "might do" and will likely do. button was 2 betting 95% of his hands at the moment. the limp-reraise was a no brainer. to not do so wouldve been hideous.

(btw this was in response to rushmore but just wanted to put it under this part of the thread.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
by calling the flop bet (and it was an unexpected flop bet) i was able to raise the turn when a safe card came and push the button off some 2, 4, and 5 out hands as well as random hands with a lone A.

[/ QUOTE ]
This explanation of why your flop call works out well if the button just calls is fine. But I'd like to hear the explanation of how things were going to play out if the button raised the flop. In your original post, you said that the main reason you called the flop is because you were hoping the button would raise it. What line were you planning to take if he did?

[mike l.]

"But I'd like to hear the explanation of how things were going to play out if the button raised the flop."

if button raises and bb calls i can safely assume that we are all locked in until the river because there's no way either of these guys is folding anything for one bet at a time, and my only concern is how to get as much money in the pot as possible unless a really ugly card falls. so then my choices are merely whether to reraise the flop when it comes back around to me or wait and checkraise the turn.