10/20 hand against possible set or flush draw

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Table is pretty good. loose and on the aggressive side, i feel like i played this hand pretty girly though on the big streets.

Party Poker 10/20 7 Card Stud High

the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif brings it in. i'm next in line and complete with [A /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, i get 3 coldcallers, some low card, the K /images/graemlins/club.gif and the 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. and the bring in folds.

4th street:
I catch a 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif. the K catches something, the 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif catches the 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. i'm first to act and bet. the low guy folds. the K calls. and the [x,x]3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif now raises. I 3-bet. the K calls. Now the 3-9 guy caps. we all call.

it's possible that the 3-9 started with 99 and caught a set, though with me holding a 9 i thought it was unlikely. and quite possible that he started rolled up with 3's. but i also felt it was very possible he was pumping a 4-flush.

when up against what you know about 90% to be either a set or a flush draw whats the best way to proceed on 5th? well this is what i did.

5th street:
i catch the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif. the K catches something. my main foe's board now looks like this [xx]3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif i'm not at all really concerned about his 3 because he was already crushing me before or still on that flush draw. he bets. i call. and the K calls.

should i have bet out 5th myself? i didn't really want to have to face another raise on the big street, but i also didn't really want to give a free or cheap card if he was still drawing.

6th:
I improve to aces up and catch the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. so my hand is this: [A/images/graemlins/spade.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gif]A/images/graemlins/heart.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gifQ/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

K seems to be drawing to something and probably drawing dead. my main foe didn't seem to catch anything. should i check or bet here? well i checked. the K checked. and my main foe bet. i called and decided that i will see a showdown for one bet (meaning checking and calling 7th street) no matter what unless i improve to a fullhouse.

is this a sound plan or am i being too weak tight on 5th, 6th and 7th?

[MRBAA]

Really, really, really depends on the opponent. I probably play it the same way against a reasonable opponent, as long as he's betting. If he takes a free card, I bet the next street. Even if he is on a four-flush, you're not giving up much by giving a free card. The main question is should you try for a c/r on 5th to ko the king?

[Andy B]

Am I missing something here? 393 is higher than 6AQ, so he bets first, yes? I think that raising would be silly given the action thus far. Even if he has "only" a four-flush and the pair, he's probably the money favorite. I think you should be a little more concerned about that pair. If he had a set, you're crushed and don't want to be in there. Your best hope is that he is on a flush draw, but if he has that, the pair improves his winning chances significantly.

On the one hand, checking and calling when you make Aces-up seems weak. On the other hand, you've more or less said, "I have Aces," and opponent has said, "I don't care." Checking and calling is OK. You can't bet and fold to a raise, because that would make the pot too big to fold.

This would be a really good time to hit. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[timmer]

What did the K do ?

your play sounds reasonable to me since its a loose game and all.

the key is do you want to encourage a bluff or stop a bluff.

since your hand is as it is I would opt to encourage a bluff
unless the K has the capability and the willingness to raise as a bluff on the river.

Another big question is what is the 3's bluffing propensity ?

timmer

[Michael Emery]

I read the responses and think MRB hit the nail right on the head. He brought up the possible C-R on fifth street to eliminate the probable kings. This was exactly what I was thinking when I read the hand.
With Chris having a 9 there is only one way for him to be full here. With the 3 he caught on fifth street also only one way he could have started rolled, and now hit quads.
A four flush is obviously a lot more likely. With this in mind I believe the correct play is to checkraise the pair and four flush to assure you get heads up.
Now before everyone starts screaming I do realize that he (the probable pair and four flush) is the money favorite at approx. odds of 60-40 heads up to the Aces. But the pot has become large enough that you have to check raise nonetheless. Kings are not going anywhere here on fifth for one bet assuming in most cases like you its a pair and four flush. But with two bets to them, I cant imagine Kings calling and cant even imagine a soild player calling with Kings up in most situations. You cant risk the King hanging around here and improving to two pair while neither of you do and winning a somewhat already large pot.
So like I said on fifth street I check raise. On sixth street I believe its an obvious bet. Like I said I can reason that there are only two ways he has you beat here, (33)393 // (99)393. Anyone that checks here should wearing a skirt and bra while they play. I would not be willing to give a free card to whats still most likely a four flush/possible two lower pair. If he has one of the two hands above, (censored) happens.

Dont play in skirts...

Mike Emery

P.S. If anyone has any holdem questions BEERMONEY is now the NL specialist with a very high placing in a big multi. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. He's still a fish in stud though /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

[patrick dicaprio]

what i do here is try to take Andy B's usuall advice, and catch a third ace on fifth street.

otherwise, i always have to laugh when i read posts from players in the HE forums about how they raised a strong hand on the board because they dont want to play passively or because calling is "weak." that is not a good reason. sometimes passivity is good. i think this is one of those situations. your opponent has to know you have aces or at least he knows ther eis a good possibility of it. if he has a draw and a pair then he is a favorite, or at least a money favorite. giving a free card isnt disastrous here, it is only really bad if your opponent would have folded to a bet some portion of the time. here that portion is zero. if you bet out and get raised you will wish you could take it back.

on sixth street i still dont bet out here. so i guess i think your line was OK.

Pat

[jon_1van]

What was the place in the NL tourney?

[Andy B]

It's so much more satisfying to hit on the river, though.