150 SNG New Years Eve Challenge

[Irieguy]

Inspired by the likes of Daliman and Zephyr, one of my backees and I are going to play a SNG marathon tomorrow. We have set up the SNG "DeathStar" in my office: 3 monitors allowing us to play up to 16 SNGs at a time. The wifies are gone, the fridge is full of Heinekens, and we are ready.

My backee has worked his way up to the $33's with a healthy ITM/ROI and is looking to use the marathon as a springboard to the $55's. We will be playing $33's and $55's primarily and our goal is 150 total SNGs.

If you would like to sweat, or better yet, avoid us tomorrow, here are our screen names:

Irieguy
Mcpherzen
TightChicken
Eighttabler

Apologies in advance for not answering any chat. We'll be busy.

I will post results at the end of the day, and possibly an update if I have time at the midway mark.

Happy New Year to all.

Irieguy

[TT_fold]

[ QUOTE ]
Inspired by the likes of Daliman and Zephyr, one of my backees and I are going to play a SNG marathon tomorrow. We have set up the SNG "DeathStar" in my office: 3 monitors allowing us to play up to 16 SNGs at a time. The wifies are gone, the fridge is full of Heinekens, and we are ready.

My backee has worked his way up to the $33's with a healthy ITM/ROI and is looking to use the marathon as a springboard to the $55's. We will be playing $33's and $55's primarily and our goal is 150 total SNGs.

If you would like to sweat, or better yet, avoid us tomorrow, here are our screen names:

Irieguy
Mcpherzen
TightChicken
Eighttabler

Apologies in advance for not answering any chat. We'll be busy.

I will post results at the end of the day, and possibly an update if I have time at the midway mark.

Happy New Year to all.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'll run into you guys tomorrow afternoon, my screen name is Jim_Fassel.

[Irieguy]

Don't you think Coach Fassel looks like Beavis from Beavis and Butthead?

Irieguy

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
If you would like to sweat, or better yet, avoid us tomorrow, here are our screen names

[/ QUOTE ]

I think since you won't have time for table-selection, you are just gonna try to get good players to NOT sit at YOUR table lol. Sounds like the lazy man's approach to table-selection...."Hey I'm awesome, so ALL GOOD PLAYERS don't sit with me, otherwise IT'LL COST YA!"

Anyways, good luck with all your pokering!!!

[Bigwig]

Yeah, I'll be drinking.

Of course, I'm playing tonight, and I'll also be drinking.

Good luck. Happy New Year and all that ****.

[Daliman]

Yeah, when I get my new computer and moniotr/monitors, I plan on attempting 250 in one day, which will semi-assuredly take 24 consecutive hours of play 8 tabling, at which time my brain will be rendered mush.

If yer playing $55's, I will set the over/under at +$1328.

Good Luck.

[Irieguy]

That's a good o/u. Our goal is $1200, but we'll be playing at least half of them at the $33's.

I can't believe you're going to try 250 in a day. That's nuts. The o/u for that is... insanity. The over wins if you're still sane, and pays +180.

[Irieguy]

T minus 15 minutes.

Updates at midday.

[Irieguy]

85 SNGs played
43 ITM so far.

ITM%- 50.6
ROI%- 60%

Not a bad start.

Irieguy

[kickingit]

doing good keep up the work

[Irieguy]

Well, it's always nice to sustain unsustainable numbers during a SNG challenge. It took us 12 hours to finish 150 SNGs (including a 2 hour lunch break). We ended up playing all $33's.

IRIEGUY:

84 SNGs played
37 ITM
44% ITM
48% ROI
Total $ won: $1338

MCPHERZEN:

65 SNGs played
33ITM
50.8% ITM
61.6%
Total $ won: $1335

Good way to end the year.

Irieguy

[theriversux]

whats roi mean

[Sidekick]

I'll cut you some slack here...

ROI = Rate Of Income

It is basically the amount of money you expect to receive for each dollar that you put into a tournament + fees. If you enter a $20+$2 SnG and have a ROI of 40% then you would expect to make $8.80 on average every time you entered a tournament. If you have a ROI of 20% then you would expect to make $4.40 on average for each tournament.

Hope this helps.

[BigHobo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll cut you some slack here...

ROI = Rate Of Income



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to nitpick, but I believe the official phrase is "Return on Investment".

[Sidekick]

You are correct. For some reason I just never think of it that way when I'm thinking in poker terms. Not sure why that is though other than the fact that I see poker money as income and not as an investment.

[Irieguy]

Nobody seemed to notice, but the total SNGs I listed only added up to 149. Mcpherzen was playing our final SNG as I typed up our final results. He ended up winning it, which was pretty sweet... but when I edited the final numbers I forgot to change the "total SNGs played" entry to 66 for him.

Also, as I entered the raw data into the spreadsheet I noticed a math error that I made while composing the results post. I calculated the 3rd place money won sum for my SNGs incorrectly. My ITM% of 44% is correct, but my ROI was actually 40%, not 48%.

Our cummulative stats for the challenge worked out to:

46.7% ITM
48.1% ROI

Clearly, these results simply reflect the good side of variance, even though we both did not at all feel like we were running well.

Nevertheless, we both felt like there were a few key factors helping us maintain our "A" game all day long. First, we decided that win or lose, success or failure, we were posting our results as soon as we finished. Second, we were playing in the same room (never at the same table), which seemed to help us maintain our focus. And third, there was another player in the room just watching... and neither of us had played SNGs in front of an audience before. It seems like those 3 factors really helped us stay in the zone for the entire session.

Another factor worthy of note is the whole New Year's Eve phenomenon. Players were particularly fishy yesterday, and we both had several SNGs where the bubble occured in level 3. There was so much gambooooooling goint on yesterday that I don't think it would have been possible to have a losing stream of more than a handful of SNGs or to post a losing ROI for more than maybe 30 SNGs.

Anyway, that's my post-game analysis.

Irieguy

[gorgeous]

Wow. Congrats! 2 hour lunch break? Big lunch, huh? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]

Another factor worthy of note is the whole New Year's Eve phenomenon. Players were particularly fishy yesterday, and we both had several SNGs where the bubble occured in level 3. There was so much gambooooooling goint on yesterday that I don't think it would have been possible to have a losing stream of more than a handful of SNGs or to post a losing ROI for more than maybe 30 SNGs.


[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I could NOT believe the fish factor yesterday. I'm relatively new to poker, but my game has improved to that of a winning low-limit STT SNG player, but yesterday my stats were unreal!!! Out of 12 $10 games lastnight, I have the following stats:
8 1st
1 2nd
1 3rd
I have never had a night like that before. Are there other nights that have as high a fish factor as New Years??

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

I have never had a night like that before. Are there other nights that have as high a fish factor as New Years??

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish need 2 things to go into frenzy: money and alcohol. That's why weekends are so much better than weekdays. Payday + cocktails = feeding frenzy.

All holidays are good... but the winter holidays are better because everybody's stuck inside. Federal holidays are always nice because a lot of people get the day off work and decide to sit around all day and play poker.

Irieguy

[IvyGrizzly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I have never had a night like that before. Are there other nights that have as high a fish factor as New Years??

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish need 2 things to go into frenzy: money and alcohol. That's why weekends are so much better than weekdays. Payday + cocktails = feeding frenzy.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, the two SnGs I've played in the last 12 hours were the fishiest I've ever seen in my life.

[reecelights]

I work in Theatre and we had a New Year's Eve event last night which meant that I was at work from 10am to 12:30am. Yes after Midnight. All I kept thinking yesterday was about the fish I was missing out on.

I found the entire month of December to be fishy, either that or I just coincidentally found some new level to my game that I didn't have before. m profits were nearly 50% more than my best previous month and have now moved from $20/2s to $30/3s.

As soon as the Rose Bowl is over I'm going to get out the Tartar sauce.

[smellynuts]

What kind of bankroll did you start with?

[Irieguy]

3K

[smellynuts]

3K in total? like 750 each?

[Irieguy]

Exactly.

[skipperbob]

Why did you post lower results than "payout"?

[rusty JEDI]

Interested to see if you had any interesting streaks?

rJ

[skipperbob]

I was the "observer"...Whole day was a blast....Morning session (85 sng's) was astounding. 43 ITM's...Over 60% ROI.
Whole disscussion during lunch was "Do we escalate, or stay at $33's...Certainly due for a regression to mean"..decided to stay at $33's....Played all games as groups of 6,7, or 8 tables...worst "mini-session" was (-)vig..best was 5 ITM's outa 6 games....Results probably way over EV, but great day

[Irieguy]

I didn't include our brief 7-table $55 session that netted us an additional few hundred dollars.

Irieguy

[bball904]

Irie,

Congrats on the big day! I think I was on 4 of your tables and you were ITM 3/4. I have to rebut your theory that it wasn't possible to lose over the course of the day though. I was 2/5/3/8 in 30 33's on the Eve for -$100. It was very painful to say the least. I think the biggest factor for my losing was that I'm used to playing the 55's (15.3% ROI in 704 55's) and I didn't adjust well to the lower starting chips. I realized after going 1/0/1 in the first 12 that you can't mix it up early. I really think there is such a huge difference in bubble play between the two levels that you simply have no reason to get involved in hands the first 3 levels in the $33's.

I'm very curious what you and McPherzen's long term ROI is for both the 33's and 55's? I'm beginning to think it may be +EV to play the 33's over the 55's.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm very curious what you and McPherzen's long term ROI is for both the 33's and 55's? I'm beginning to think it may be +EV to play the 33's over the 55's.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny you should ask this. After our challenge we decided that we would complete our current batch of 500 $55 SNGs (which would only take a couple more weeks), and then move up to the $109's next month. We have since changed our minds and decided to stay at the $33's for a lot longer for several reasons.

At one of the tables I sat down at early in the day, some smart-ass 2+2er types in "hey Irie, if you're supposed to be so good, why are you only playing the $33's?" Well, if he watched what happened in that SNG and read this thread, the answer should be pretty clear.

McPherzen and I have similar long term ROIs at the $33 level: around 28% playing 4-8 tables for over 1000 SNGs combined. We haven't played 500 SNGs at the $55 level yet, but our ROI appears to be around 21%... again, playing 4-8 tables at once. So, we make a little bit more per SNG at the $55's, but there are other considerations:

1. You need less bankroll to play the $33's. That makes it easier to buy stuff and blow cash. I like to buy stuff and blow my cash.

2. The small ITM% decrease you see as you move up increases the likelihood of losing streams. That means that I am more likely to lose 15 SNGs in a row playing the $55's than I am playing the $33's. Anybody who has gone through that understands how bad it feels. Both Zen and I "quit poker forever" several times each month. Fortunately for our bankrolls, we only end up quitting for a few days before coming out of retirement again.

3. There are pretty major strategic differences between beating the $33's and below and beating the $55's and above. There is very little decision making necessary at the lower limits. At the higher limits you have to concentrate harder and make more decisions than you do at the lower limits. That fact has many implications, and we're just starting to realize how important some of those implications are.

So I'm still struggling with what limit is right for me. Obviously, I would love to play 500 $215 SNGs each month and beat them for 10%+ ROI. But there are many ways to skin this cat, and I think I may prefer to get scratched as little as possible.

Irieguy

[bball904]

Excellent points that summarize my thoughts exactly. I'll add a fourth point for my situation.

4. I'm much more comfortable 4 tabling at the 33's based on the strategic implications in point 3. I 2 table at the 55's and a 15-20% ROI at 2 55's generates significantly less hourly rate than a 25-30% ROI at 4 33's.

I have significant personal experience with your 2nd point as well. In Nov, I had 25.3% ROI in 387 55's for $5,165 and in Dec I had 2.9% ROI in 311 55's for $495. It was a brutal 2 week stretch of ($1,760) in 172 tournies. Most of it was getting cold decked in bubble situations, and I was tearing what little hair I have left out on a nightly basis. From what I saw the other day, getting blinded off like I was tournament after tournament is one of the differences that you wouldn't expect to find as much in the 33's.

[Mr_J]

"I 2 table at the 55's and a 15-20% ROI at 2 55's generates significantly less hourly rate than a 25-30% ROI at 4 33's"

How can you compare playing 2 $55s vs 4 $33s? You should be comparing 4 $55s to 4 $33s. Assuming 15% at the $55s and 25% at the $33s then you make $8.25 from each sng for both buy-ins. Playing at $55s isn't costing you money, just increases the BR swings you'll face.

Interesting what you guys are saying though. I only started playing poker recently and basically skipped the low buy-ins (around 15 sngs) and went right to the $50s. Maybe if after if I'm hitting 15% or less I shoulo jump back down and see what I can make /hr at the $33s.

[bball904]

I can easily compare 2 55's to 4 33's because at those levels that is what I am comfortable playing. I would not want to put myself in the position of being on the bubble in 4 55's concurrently. I am comfortable with that idea at 33's.

[adanthar]

How about your skill level, though?

All other things being equal, I'd play the 30's, but I feel like I'm getting better faster in the 50's...and I do want to hit the 100's/200's sooner rather than later.

But I know where you're coming from. Taking the swings is increasingly hard as they represent more money.