push on the turn?

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t745)
UTG+1 (t790)
MP1 (t75)
MP2 (t665)
Hero (t1935)
CO (t710)
Button (t910)
SB (t735)
BB (t1435)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls t15, CO folds, Button calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t75) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t150</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t250.

Turn: (t875) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t875) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t350</font>, Hero calls t350.

Final Pot: t1575

[t_perkin]

I'd probably fold PF this early in a SnG, its not worth getting into trouble, but I expect that ATs is profitable here for some players.

What stakes are you playing? The rest assumes that you are playing stakes where you can assume not complete loons.

When the BB raises twice the pot, something funny is going on. He is either crap and trying to push you off his draw, or maybe he is massively over protecting a two-pair?

Once he calls your raise on the flop I would not bet again. He could be on quite a few hands, straight draws, flush draws, two pair.

I would say you are in a real mess by the river, hard to know what to do.

Just some thoughts, from a rather out of touch player.

Tim

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Didn't realize the converter didn't put the stakes. This is a Party $10/+$1 NL SNG.

[adanthar]

If you play this hand you have to, and I do mean have to, know when to fold it.

The flop is a good place to start.

[Sluss]

I'm not sure what the buy in here is, but this really smells like a poor player with a Q 10. Plus with the big blind he could have 23, hell 10 6 for that matter. When he checks the turn it really smells like some sort of a trap.

If you push the turn you could really see a call with a better hand. Then your just hoping.

At this blind level, I might fold to that river bet. You have what really looks like a second best hand. You still have a good stack, that will be great for blind stealing in a level or two. Might just be I'm too tight weak /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

OK. What do you do here preflop with AJs?

[adanthar]

I limp. I'll also limp AQo-ATo, KQo, and on or anywhere near the button I'll throw in KJ, QJ and various other Broadway trash along with various suited trash.

All of these are break even, marginally profitable or very profitable hands for me in the first few levels, largely because I very rarely let those pots get too large. Getting bet into for twice the pot by a big stack is one of those times where the pot gets too large really quickly.

(Obvious exception: You need to look at the previous hand histories and figure out where his extra chips came from. If he's a huge LAG, reraising's better.)

[Sluss]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is a good place to start.

[/ QUOTE ]

With top pair top kicker and a backdoor flush draw? I'm not real sure I would re-raise. But I might call and see if the turn brings a spade. Now on the river I might think twice about calling that big of a bet, but I would have only wasted a small portion of my stack to see if I could catch a hand that could bust what looks like a very loose player.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
With top pair top kicker and a backdoor flush draw? I'm not real sure I would re-raise. But I might call and see if the turn brings a spade.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got bet into for twice the pot. You call. Okay, the turn is a 2 of spades. Now you're facing another pot sized bet, which, by now, is about 400. Do you call? How about if he goes all in?

This is the best way to lose a lot of chips.

PS: The river is the one street you have to call because while it's sort of a 'please call me' bet it's also just barely small enough to come from a busted draw or a weaker T/AT. Of course, you really shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Sluss]

Okay, if you get bet at twice like that twice the flop and then a flop size bet, when you have TPTK, what do you put the BB on?

Seems to me like a maniac that has nothing. A 10+1 fish will not bet something that could beat you that hard. At least not in my mind. This could be why my 10+1 ROI is the lowest of the 4 buy-ins I play. (and I've played 1 11 in the last three months and that was just to blow off some steam)

[Phil Van Sexton]

Push the turn? Yes, unless you have a strong read on the BB.

Pre-flop....I'd probably raise to 50 or 60. I'd try to buy the button and charge the 1 limper. I have to think that my ATs is better than whatever he's limping with. Your position isn't bad, you have 1900 chips and ATs....I think folding is a mistake and calling is weak.

Whatever, you called. On the flop, the BB overbets the pot. This is very odd. He also has the only stack that can hurt you. Assuming he's a "typical" player (a big assumption with that bet), I think your raise is a mistake. Folding is reasonable, but I'd probably call since you can afford it and I doubt he would overbet if he had a monster.

After your raise, the pot is 875 and he has only 1020 left. Now any bet by you, and you are likely going to war for his whole stack. This greatly limits your options.

If you had called, the pot is 375 and you don't have to play the mutual destruction game on the turn/river. I'd guess he would check on the turn....either because he's on a draw, is afraid your big stack is trapping him, or because he's trapping you. In any case, I bet 200 if he checks, fold to a raise, and check behind on the river unless you make your flush.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, if you get bet at twice like that twice the flop and then a flop size bet, when you have TPTK, what do you put the BB on?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a LAG you would know that by now because he's doubled through and you've checked the hand history.

If you give him some credit, there's exactly three hands that he bets like this on this flop that you like - KT-JT (and AT). Everything else (JJ, A5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 65, 87 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, etc) has you beat, some by a long shot.

Given the river bet, I'm pretty sure he lost this hand (80% sure he was behind on the flop, the rest is QT) and it starts with the flop play.

[Turk]

Level 1 in the wildwest $10 +1 on Party ( which is where I play) I am most likely not playing A 10s unless I am near the button and even then very rarely. When I do play hands like this I am looking to flop something solid like two pair or flush draw, which I will then play strong.
If I get doubled up early I will usually get even tighter until the blinds go up, playing only premium hands and unless pp limped for set value, I will come in as the aggressor with a raise of at least 3-4xbb
I wont play it from MP because it is a hand that I cant take any heat with and it is me with the tough decision rather than me putting others to those decisions.