Would anyone like this software?

[Bytestream]

I was thinking about programming a heads up display similar to playerview, with the following feature as its advantage point:

A rollover window over a players name that lists known starting hands for this player based on their position and actions. (i.e "raised on the flop with Top Pair 50%, Two pair 50% flush draw 0%" ... known starting hands in mid postion following a raise AK, QQ, TT, AQs...)

Would also include some other minor touches that are mostly simple, yet quick and easy info on hand for multitablers:

-pot odd calculations

-alert when its possible to steal blinds based on blind players defense stats

-similar alert to not bluff river when oppenents calling percent is not favorable to pot odds.

...and some other ideas Im too lazy to spell out at the moment.

Untill this point, I have been pretty much against all types of sofware enhanced game play. I've felt like the online experience would be corrupted in baby steps, one software app (bot) improvement after another. Its happening sooner then I would have predicted though as new programs are hitting the market monthly.

I dont worry about good bots beating good players, as much as I worry about the good bots fleecing the poor players. My biggest fear is what happens once the news of winning bots hits US media (60 minutes, 20/20 etc) which it ineviably will. The media here loves to take a story like this a create all kinds of hysteria, talk about "tapping on the glass", this will be like taking a sledge hammer to it.

Once mike wallace fires up a winning bot and lets it run for thier prime time story, and it cashes big overnigt at Partym that will be the end of online poker as we know it today.

[mcozzy1]

I'm confused. On one hand, you say you're scared of poker software stories hitting TV. On the other hand, you're offering to distribute poker software so it becomes more prevalent.

I understand the distinction you're making between bots and what you're offering; but why post it?

[Bytestream]

My program won't make anything "more prevalant". Its already occuring and I dont see any turning back now. Doing nothing wouldn't change anything, but maybe my program will help me (and some others) make more money while the getting is good.

And, here is the best part, if my fears are wrong, then I would have produced a pretty solid product that has unlimited potential for future enhancements and profitability.

[itsmarty]

Had this come out before PT and PV it could have gotten some interest, but I don't see why you'd take it beyond the idea stage today.

Martin

[Bytestream]

actually, I was thinking of it as an upgrade to PT and PV

[memphis57]

Sounds interesting to me, if it were an add-on to PT like GameView and if it did different/better things than GameView does.

[SackUp]

ya any enhancement program would be appreciated. PV and GT+ are both great programs, but can never hurt to have more competition.

Get us the best product out there /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bobdibble]

No. Doing most of the stuff you are talking about would require screen scraping the party screens. This is specifically against the terms-of-service from what I understand.

Oh.. and even if it weren't for the above, I wouldn't use something like this anyway. Playerview is one thing.. but having a program start flaging key situations dynamically is going over the line.

And one more thing.. Imagine if the weaker players got this.. do you really want them to have a signal that it may be a good idea to steal blinds? Do you really want them to get help with pot odds?

That would suck. At least with playerview/gt the user has to understand what to do with the information being provided.

[Bytestream]

Valid points, because what I have been wondering a lot lately is where that line exactly is. I don't think developers in the near future are going to care much about crossing it one way or another. But Im not all that interested in doing it and prob will spend my time playing instead of coding while the action is still good.

[Tony Corbett]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about programming a heads up display similar to playerview, with the following feature as its advantage point:

A rollover window over a players name that lists known starting hands for this player based on their position and actions. (i.e "raised on the flop with Top Pair 50%, Two pair 50% flush draw 0%" ... known starting hands in mid postion following a raise AK, QQ, TT, AQs...)

Would also include some other minor touches that are mostly simple, yet quick and easy info on hand for multitablers:

-pot odd calculations

-alert when its possible to steal blinds based on blind players defense stats

-similar alert to not bluff river when oppenents calling percent is not favorable to pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

When do advanced player aids become manual bots? Sounds like you'd ultimately develop a player aid where 95% of the players time is simply following advice and clicking the appropiate button. Little poker skill required.


[ QUOTE ]
I dont worry about good bots beating good players, as much as I worry about the good bots fleecing the poor players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Advanced player aids allow good players to play more tables effectively, thus fleecing the recreational players more efficiently.


[ QUOTE ]
My biggest fear is what happens once the news of winning bots hits US media (60 minutes, 20/20 etc) which it ineviably will. The media here loves to take a story like this a create all kinds of hysteria, talk about "tapping on the glass", this will be like taking a sledge hammer to it.

Once mike wallace fires up a winning bot and lets it run for thier prime time story, and it cashes big overnigt at Partym that will be the end of online poker as we know it today.

[/ QUOTE ]

This wouldn't be good but my biggest fear is US players being stopped from playing by whatever reason. Playing NL and PLO against europeans on Ladbrokes just doesn't bear thinking about.

[Bytestream]

I dont entirely disagree with any of your points.

The player aid I am hypothetically proposing isn't going to be anything different from what is already widely accepted.

I would just be pulling out specific information from PT during gameplay. I would just be querying the db for the pertinent information you could look up manually if you use PT (such as known raising hands in ep). These player aides are going to surface sooner or later.

I would be much more interested in developing anti-bot software for the poker sites themselves then creating player aiding software. However you can't run anti-bot sofware locally so theres no use in that.

[Tony Corbett]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be much more interested in developing anti-bot software for the poker sites themselves then creating player aiding software. However you can't run anti-bot sofware locally so theres no use in that.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm no expert in programming but I would think that a bot needs to do two things gather information from the screen and issue commands to the poker client. I would have thought it would be possible to detect and/or block both of these links to the client.

If the poker sites don't have the in house expertise to do this I think they should work in partnership with an antvirus software company to develop a poker client that scans memory for bots.


Hopefully they'll be proactive in this and not wait until after your nightmare 60 mins special is aired.

[ChessMan]

I think taking screen shots is undetectable... therefore gathering info from the poker client is not detectable.

Generating mouse clicks and keyboard events look the same whether it's a human doing it or a computer program (I think).

Therefore a bot should be undetectable.

If the poker site knows there is a bot, and what it's process name is, well then I think it's detectable.

If you write your own bot, I'm pretty sure there's no chance the poker site will know.

I don't know how it will play out. But the bots are coming if they are not already there. I don't know how the fish will react. I see lot's of people playing slot machines even though they know it's a bot and it's got an edge. Maybe it won't be so bad when 60 Minutes airs the bot piece.

[Richard Berg]

[ QUOTE ]

If you write your own bot, I'm pretty sure there's no chance the poker site will know.


[/ QUOTE ]
There are lots of stupid things you could do to get caught. For instance, if you played 20 hours a day every day on the same skin, or if you always clicked the button exactly 3 seconds after being prompted...

[mcozzy1]

This thread was 3 weeks old. Why are you bringing up an old bot post? Cheaters have their own websites. Let it go.