Commission Coach Hand # 14 Another TPTK hand from CO

[O Doyle Rules]

This time my opponent is a regular at the 15 games, who I would describe as a TAG.
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.33 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (11.33 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 13.33 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
MP3 has 3h 3c (three of a kind, threes).
Hero has Td Ac (one pair, tens).
Outcome: MP3 wins 13.33 BB. </font>

[Avatar]

He must not be a winning TAG to make that flop call.

[Fianchetto]

Preflop: I'm not crazy about the preflop raise in a full game with a couple of TAG limpers ahead of you. The good thing is you did buy yourself the button and get it checked to you on the flop, but I think it's close between limping and raising.

Flop: Standard. You must bet this with TP/TK.

Turn: You can lay down right here. He checkraised two other players on the expensive street, he is not making a move with a weak hand here. Your best hope is that you can catch up if he has two pair, but even that is grasping at straws. What would he limp with that made two pair? T9s is most likely, which has you down to 3 outs. A set has you drawing dead, and I don't see a TAG making this kind of move holding KT.

[amulet]

with the AJs hand i play it the way you did. on this hand ATo is pretty much trash, i not only don't raise with it, i often muck it preflop.

[Kaz The Original]

With implied odds he had 20:1. 1 SB on the flop ended up making him 22 sb's on the river.

[pdavester]

did you read the same post that I did? he was getting 9:1 on the flop, and if you count every penny that made he was getting 15:1. You have to subtract all the money that he put into the pot. After all you cant count your own money into the implied odds calculation.

A bad call on the flop made him 15 sb.

[roy_miami]

There has to be a certain percentage of times when the 33 is best on the flop, I don't think it was such a horrible flop call considering the flop was all under ten. Alot of times he will get a free look at the river in this situation as well.

[Alexthegreat]

Preflop I fold after 2 limpers....I would open-raise this hand, as well as raise a single limper if the blinds are weak....I want to play this heads up or 3-handed if possible, and with the 2 limpers already in ahead of you, I just let this one go....

As to the hand, with a TAG read, I would call the turn and fold a river blank....

[Nightwish]

I think you'll get much better advice if you don't post results. As it stands, about the only piece of advice I agree with so far is that I probably wouldn't have raised this preflop. Other than that, you played your hand perfectly fine.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
There has to be a certain percentage of times when the 33 is best on the flop, I don't think it was such a horrible flop call considering the flop was all under ten. Alot of times he will get a free look at the river in this situation as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be kidding me. It's an absolutely awful flop call! Yeah, there's a chance your hand is still best, but do you really think it'll be best by the river? If you're behind, you're drawing to 2 outs, and 41 out of the 46 remaining cards are overcards.

[JasonP530]

I dont like the preflop raise after two people have limped. With respect to the 33, he had to do something to either put pressure on the raiser to fold his overcards, or get away from 33 if it was no good. Check caling the flop and giving the opponent a free ride to the river cannot be good. Also, if you have 33, you dont know which of AKQJ beats you on the river, so youll be left blindly calling if one falls and opponent bets.

[O'Doyle's Coach]

This hand is raise or fold for me. In the situation you described its a fold - vs two weak limpers its a raise. I certainly dont think this is ever a call as it's a hand that has very poor implied odds.

the player who called the flop with an underpair to the board made a poor call also in my opinion - he's closing the action getting almost 10:1. to spike his set he needs to be confident he makes 13 additional SB on average. thats too optimistic I think...

[AustinDoug]

Had I been MP3, I would have probably bet the flop. Am I a LAG? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[William Jockusch]

Preflop: I think this is a fold. ATo is great when very few people see the flop, because it has nice high-card strength. With two limpers in front of you, it gets a lot worse, because you have very little chance of making a big hand such as a flush or a straight. The more people in the pot, the more likely it is you will need a big hand to win.

That said, your preflop raise is better than calling, as you at least have a good chance of getting rid of the blinds. With this hand, the fewer people seeing the flop, the better.

Flop turn and river are all automatic. Having chosen to play the hand, I would play these streets the same way you did 100% of the time.

William

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop turn and river are all automatic. Having chosen to play the hand, I would play these streets the same way you did 100% of the time.



[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that I almost always play this hand this way, I think it may be a leak. I think I should be folding hands just like this on the turn in some spots.

[surfdoc]

Villian's preflop limp with one caller is also less than stellar.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Had I been MP3, I would have probably bet the flop. Am I a LAG? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you do when the hero raises your flop bet? Do you call down, even if you don't get your miracle card on the turn? Check-fold is about the only good line for MP3. Everything else sucks.

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
You've got to be kidding me. It's an absolutely awful flop call!

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, the pre-flop raise with ATo is worse than the flop call with 33.

Tuco.