Preflop reraise all-in with AKo?

[AndrewB]

This is a $5+.5 Pokerstars Sit n Go with blinds (25/50).

7 players left, I have t1300 in 6th place.

I am in MP and I raise to t150. CO re-raises to t350 and microstack SB calls with his last t200.

I see all of these nice chips in the pot, and I wants them now! So naturally, I move all-in. I knew I was probably in a coinflip situation at best if he called.

Was my line too aggressive for this early in the sit n go?

[floppy]

The only chips you're taking if CO folds are the extra 150 that BB can't cover. Otherwise, you're going against BB for all those chips whether you like it or not. Going all-in just gives CO the chance to bust you if he has AA or KK (I think he'd have to be a lunatic to call with anything else, but I could be wrong), and best case scenario you've won 150 in chips.

If it were just you vs. CO, stop and go would be a pretty good move (i.e., move all in on the flop, regardless of what it is). Here, you'd be doing it just for 150 again. I guess you should bet for value if you hit the flop. Stop and go might still have value in pushing him off the pot, but you still have to beat BB, and they likely have at least PP.

[Big Limpin']

I like the action. I think CO is good to go, NOBODY re-raises, then folds to a re-re-raise. At $5+.50.
The reson you are pushing here is he has position you. You wont have that disadvantage if you are all in. And you see all 5 board cards. THats huge.

And, contrary to previous response, ("he'd have to be a LUNATIC to call without AA/KK"), when its not a race, you will be dominating more often than dominated (i.e. he will have AQ/AJ/KQ/72o more often than AA/KK)

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
Going all-in just gives CO the chance to bust you if he has AA or KK (I think he'd have to be a lunatic to call with anything else, but I could be wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

This would offically qualify CO as the tightest $5+.50 player in HISTORY. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif (not intended to be offensive to you, just, um, believe me.)

[floppy]

No offense taken. I realize I overstated the possiblity of AA/KK.

Still, I don't see the point of going all in here. It seems that you're saying that you *want* CO to call. If that's true, then if I'm overstating AA/KK, I think you're overstating Ax or Kx, which is the only thing you'd want CO to show here. Two undercards, while not a favorite, is still 40% to beat you, and any pocket pair is actually ahead.

On top of that, you still have to beat BB no matter what, so why put yourself in jeopardy of getting tossed when it's nowhere clear that you have the best of it?

[Scuba Chuck]

In general, I like AK allin bets(but don't like AK allin calls). This situation is a little more tricky. This would be raising a large reraise already.

The positive is if he/she folds, you get heads up against the small stack who has any random hand. AK likes heads up play, and doesn't like multi-way.

The negative is that CO raised your PF bet, meaning that he probably has a strong hand. I find that this type of bet is asking to be called allin, it's textbook setup. It leads me to believe your allin bet WILL BE CALLED. So, that just eliminated our positive above.

If you want to increase your ROI, this is a great area to study.

The bettor could have anything from AJ to AA to 22. Even fish find gems in their hole cards sometimes. You are a coinflip at best, but at worst, you're dominated by 4 to 1.

So you have to ask yourself some questions.

Are you willing to go out on a coinflip, early in an SNG when you still have a strong chip position (1150)?

If I lose this coinflip, am I good enough to recover with a small stack?

Finally, am I following my EP (early play) strategy?

Frankly, I don't "gamble" when I play poker. I play poker. That means I would avoid most coinflips in early play, unless I am left with a large stack if I lost. The best poker players are tight aggressive, and this is a loose aggressive call IMHO. With due respect, this question begs for a "I need an early play strategy?" /images/graemlins/confused.gif

So, maybe this will help you more than a simple answer to your question.

Here's a good early play strategy you might like:
From any position, raise to 3xBB (more in round 1) with AA, KK, QQ, AK. If bet is reraised a large bet, fold AK.

From early position, limp in with 77-JJ. If raised a small amount, call (unless everyone calls and I am last to call, then I am allin). If I am raised a medium/large amount, I might go allin with TT-JJ, otherwise fold. Fight another day.

From late position, MP3, CO, Button, and SB/BB I will call (or check) with 22-66. Fold to any raise. With any small or medium pairs you're looking to flop a set. If you don't hit, you check or fold. Exception to this would be if you're pair beats all flopped cards.

From the button: Poker is about position, so if you want to be a little loose, this is where you do it from.

Limp in with 22-88, AQ, and sometimes AJ.
If there are a lot of limpers, or have 99-AA, AK, raise to 5XBB. If reraised, fold 22-88, AQ, AJ and maybe AK. I would push 99-AA. It's hard to believe the fish at your table wouldn't at least mini-raise with hands better than 99.

Fold to any raised pot with 22-66, AQ, AJ. Also, if pot is significanly raised, fold 77-99, AK. With TT-AA, if pot is significantly raised you could either go allin, or call and plan to do a stop-n-go as suggested by earlier comment.

At this stage, I wouldn't work so much on your postflop strategy. IMO, the reason you're playing $5.50 tables is because you need to get better at the bubble. So you need to increase your experience on the bubble. Do everything that increases your chances for playing at the bubble. Especially with all different chip stack sizes. BTW, you will learn the most when you're on the bubble with a small chip stack.

Scuba

[floppy]

[ QUOTE ]
From early position, limp in with 77-JJ. If raised a small amount, call (unless everyone calls and I am last to call, then I am allin). If I am raised a medium/large amount, I might go allin with TT-JJ, otherwise fold. Fight another day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scuba,

Is the idea here to represent AA/KK and force everyone from QQ on down into a decision?

I've seen this numerous times at Paradise $10 + 1, and on the one hand, it's a maniac play. On the other hand, there are enough players there who want to get to at least the bubble that they'll fold without AA/KK.

[AndrewB]

Thanks for the advice Scuba and others, what I was thinking when I moved all-in was to hopefully make QQ and below fold. I generally am not a big fan of throwing chips around preflop that early in a tourney but that didn't stop me from clicking all in. It was one of those plays where as soon as he reraised I was going over the top, regardless of a third player in the pot. The more I think about the all-in move, the less I like it.

When it comes to bubble strategy, I am pretty happy with my game. It's the headsup and overbetting where I think I need some work. With an admittedly small sample size of 70 tournies, I finish ITM 54% of the time with a ROI in the 40s%, with a 1st/2nd/3rd ratio of 9/16/13.

[Scuba Chuck]

Floppy, I have regretted writing this post all day. I was trying to say too much, which isn't possible. In hindsight, I should have made the strategy tighter all around, and then focused more on button play - which was my objective.

I see the flaw in my writing. I think I would rather retract my comment than try to explain. The "I might" section still holds true for me, but I am too tired to get into the details.

Let's get to my original concept instead.

How should we play the button? Specifically, in early play, level 1-3, how should we play the button when there are only limpers betting in front of us? What range would we consider limping in with? What hands would we consider raising?

Then, how will we handle the flop if it is checked to us when we raise?

Rather than me giving my ideas - what are yours first?

[Scuba Chuck]

Andrew, I apologize, I misread the intent of your question.

When you say overbetting, do you mean when to reraise?

[floppy]

[ QUOTE ]
How should we play the button? Specifically, in early play, level 1-3, how should we play the button when there are only limpers betting in front of us? What range would we consider limping in with? What hands would we consider raising?

Then, how will we handle the flop if it is checked to us when we raise?

Rather than me giving my ideas - what are yours first?

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly, I haven't really thought this through, so I guess now is as good a time as any:

First off, I'd split it between Level 1 and 2-3. This is site dependent, but at Paradise the first level is 5/10 and you start with 1000 chips. A limp for 1/100th of your stack seems pretty reasonable to me.

For that reason, at Level 1, with 5 or more limpers I'd limp with anything and look to hit 2 pair. That's 3/5ths of the times the flop hits with two of your cards (trips on either is the other), so it's about a 33:1 shot, and with a lot of limpers $T330 seems reasonable (actually, it would have to be a little more to account for the suckouts, but it's not unreasonable)

With less than 5 limpers I guess I'd stay in with connectors or 1-gappers, Axs, maybe Kxs and Qxs, AJ-AK, KQ and pocket pairs.

In either case, QQ or better or AK and I raise (3 + #limpers) * BB.

I'm not interested in the suitedness of low cards because I'm afraid of the higher flush. This could be a leak, since it might not be as likely as I think it is.

Level 2, I'd limp with any pocket pair, mid range connector or 1-gapper, Axs, maybe Kxs, AJ and up (very careful on the flop, though) and KQ. Raise with QQ-AA and AK as before.

Level 3 about the same as Level 2. Probably get rid of Kxs.

Postflop Play:

With 5 or more limpers I'd be inclined to check and just let it go. At that point, it seems likely that someone is laying a trap. With 4 or fewer I suppose a pot sized bet is reasonable, but it's an obvious enough play that a second bet will probably be needed on the turn, and the pot at that point is going to be huge. It's probably level dependent, since the pot has to be small enough for people to let it go, and big enough to make calling with nothing a bad idea.

If the flop hits me good, bet it to see where you stand.

If the flop hits me for a boat, I might smooth-check to set up the turn (depends on the boat, though. I've smooth-checked a rag boat into a smaller boat. Worth the risk, perhaps, but something to be aware of).

Set or two pair, probably bet to take it down now. On the other hand, this makes implied payoff for two pair less than 33:1, so I guess a check may be in order. You're probably better off with a rag two pair against a min raise than against all limpers for that reason. I might also get fancy with a set if the flop isn't very coordinated, but it is a risk (and you're already getting the 7.5:1 odds you needed to limp with your pocket pair, so there's no sin in preventing free cards)

A few notes:

- At all of levels 1-3, I'd call a minraise. The pot odds are just too juicy.

- I might be picky about connectors where both cards are 9-J, since your straight draw is more likely to be up against top pair or two pair.

- Against limpers, I think KQ can be pretty powerful if you know that AK and AQ would have been raised. For this same reason, I think limping with AK in early position is a good idea. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a $5+.5 Pokerstars Sit n Go with blinds (25/50).

7 players left, I have t1300 in 6th place.

I am in MP and I raise to t150. CO re-raises to t350 and microstack SB calls with his last t200.

I see all of these nice chips in the pot, and I wants them now! So naturally, I move all-in. I knew I was probably in a coinflip situation at best if he called.

Was my line too aggressive for this early in the sit n go?

[/ QUOTE ]

This entirely depends on how the CO plays. If he's a typical $5 SNG player, he is probably passive, which means he will not reraise preflop with a hand worse than QQ. If that's the case, I would simply call and check/fold a bad flop. On the other hand, if CO is an aggressive player, this is a great spot to go all-in.

In general, at the $5 or $10 level, I have a lot of respect for preflop reraises. Plenty of players at these levels will not reraise preflop unless they have an extremely strong hand.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a $5+.5 Pokerstars Sit n Go with blinds (25/50).

7 players left, I have t1300 in 6th place.

I am in MP and I raise to t150. CO re-raises to t350 and microstack SB calls with his last t200.

I see all of these nice chips in the pot, and I wants them now! So naturally, I move all-in. I knew I was probably in a coinflip situation at best if he called.

Was my line too aggressive for this early in the sit n go?

[/ QUOTE ]

This entirely depends on how the CO plays. If he's a typical $5 SNG player, he is probably passive, which means he will not reraise preflop with a hand worse than QQ. If that's the case, I would simply call and check/fold a bad flop. On the other hand, if CO is an aggressive player, this is a great spot to go all-in.

In general, at the $5 or $10 level, I have a lot of respect for preflop reraises. Plenty of players at these levels will not reraise preflop unless they have an extremely strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT?! at Party's $10 SnGs, I;ve seen lots of players re-raise with mid-suited connectors, 22, and worst because they think poker is all about bluffing.

and what's worst they catch something and win.

[stillnotking]

[ QUOTE ]
WHAT?! at Party's $10 SnGs, I;ve seen lots of players re-raise with mid-suited connectors, 22, and worst because they think poker is all about bluffing.

and what's worst they catch something and win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen that too, of course.

Weak players at $5s and $10s generally fall into one of two categories: weak passive calling stations (some loose, some tight) that rarely raise or reraise except with a premium hand, and "banzai" maniacs who play like they're late for a date with Paris Hilton. The former far outnumber the latter in my experience. Which is good, because "naked mindless aggression" is a better SNG strategy than "only raise with the nuts".