6/12 bad play

[rt1]

Bay101 6-12. this game is so lose. 7-8 taking flops for any amount of bets.

I'm in EP with KQs, i open raise... 6 or 7 callers and we take a Q45 flop. blinds check to me and i bet. MP is the worst player i have ever seen. Plays/raises any two down the river no matter what. He raises. blinds call and I 3 bet. He caps. blinds call. I know my hand is good here.

Turn comes an A. [censored], not what i wanted to see, not in this game. blinds check, i bet, mp calls, blinds call.

River is a K. sb leads into me. she is an awful player, consantly bitching about bad beats, and she prob takes about 13 angle shots a night. WTF is she leading into me? I figure if this king helped her, its only helping my hand more. So i raise. MP folds. SB gives me this disgusted look and goes 'WOW YOU HAVE TJ [censored]!'... does my flop play really read TJ? I start cracking up. She calls and flips over 23o for the straight.

How bad was my play? Way too over aggro? I cant figure this out.

[Michael Davis]

In a game where 6-7 are seeing the flop, you shouldn't be entering the pot with KQs unless you are in late position.

On the flop, with so many opponents, you should have called and not threebet, with the intention of calling down the rest of the way. Too many players to push top pair.

Given that you played it so hard, you definitely should have shut down on the turn when the ace hit. It's check-fold time; that's just a terrible card for you.

On the river, when a player bets like this when the board pairs, (s)he always has trips/good kicker beaten, probably by a set, but sometimes by a weird straight. You should probably fold but I would make a crying call just to see her hand.

If you are playing in a game with 6-7 people seeing every flop, you need to play only when you have position on them, and you need to calm your ass down postflop.

-Michael

[rt1]

the board didnt pair...

Both players were god awful and I was trying to get value out of my hand. MP showed down 24o unimproved earlier that night. I know KQ is awful out of position, but vs these players i want to play it very hard. If one of the better players was in the hand then i would have def slowed down. If I had checked the turn I think that is way too weak. I was planing on folding to a turn raise actually... which any ace in this game would do (raise).

[Shillx]

I'm probably just calling with this hand PF. I don't really want to bulid a pot preflop out of position without the best hands.

I'm just calling the raise on the flop. No one is going anywhere to the 3-bet, and you don't have a "pot pumping" type hand IMO.

Turn, yuck. Check and call one.

River, just call here. You have a bet coming out of nowhere from a bad player. I would assume she has JT when she bets but I'm making a crying call.

Brad

[rt1]

ok shilx, i like your advice. my prob with a turn chk/call here is that if i chk to MP he bets (no matter what). If i bet and he calls i know for sure i have him beat. If i bet and he raises i can get away.

Also, do i chk/call the turn, and call the river? seems weak.

I def wont be raising this out of position, I figured i could get away with it because of how poor this game was, but i see why i shouldnt. Again, Thanks

[Shillx]

With the amount of money that is in the pot, and the way you describe the player behind you, there is a 0% chance I'm folding if he raises the turn.

Brad

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
In a game where 6-7 are seeing the flop, you shouldn't be entering the pot with KQs unless you are in late position.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're joking, right? In a game populated by weak players who will coldcall and chase with crap, I will play this from EP every time, and almost always for a raise. Although I guess I might fold this from EP, like never.

[Nick C]

Here's my take on the hand.

Preflop: The raise is fine. KQs is a good multiway hand, even out of position.

Flop: Good bet. I don't have a problem with the 3-bet, either. I'm not crazy about the coordination of the 4 and 5, and I don't know to what extent suits were a factor, but you are likely ahead. It so happens that SB flopped a good draw, but there will be times when none of your three remaining opponents (I think you had three opponents left when the action got back to you) will have such a good draw. Instead, you may be facing a combination of one pair hands hoping for a second pair or trips, gutshots, unpaired ace-rags, pocket pairs chasing a set, and even backdoor flushes. Some of these holdings will have the odds to chase, given the pot size, but there's not much you can do about that. From the sounds of it (in one of your follow-up posts), MP is likely to slow down on the turn, so it doesn't sound like waiting for a "safe" card and betting again in the hopes MP will raise again with an inferior hand will be successful. It's hard to know what's out there, but if you currently have the best hand and there are a full 20 cards (an oversimplified hypothetical estimation) you need to dodge on the turn and river, you'll still end up with the best hand almost a third of the time. Since there's not much you can do to protect your hand, I think going ahead and getting more money in while there's a good chance you have an edge is fine.

Turn: That ace is a bad card for you. If (as you describe) MP will bet if you check to him but will just call (when behind) if you bet, then I don't think you lose anything by checking and calling.

River: I'd hope SB just caught a worse two pair but would be worried about JT and would probably just call.

Anyway, at loose and wild tables you're going to lose to some very weak starting cards from time to time. (I also once lost in a huge pot with KQs to 32o. It was capped with something like eight players in preflop. The person who capped preflop had 32o and ended up chopping with someone else who had 32s. It was expensive for me, since I they both flopped a wheel [and the guy who flopped a set of aces wasn't slowing down either] and I was in all the way to the river with my nut flush draw [and in fact was doing some of the postflop betting myself].) But, if you're playing well, you'll win your share of big pots at such tables and come out ahead in the long run.