I need some Lee Jones....kinda

[dealer_toe]

I did a little thinking about my game at work today. Well a lot of thinking about my game, just like everyday at work. As I was reccomending some poker books to a co-worker it hit me. I never read WLLHE. A lot of people suggest WLLHE, SSH, TP. (SSH and TP may be backwards) I realized this because I have had a tough time with my post flop play. It is by far the weakest aspect of my game. I make calls I shouldnt be making. (i.e. calling draws with odds just below what they should be to draw, and playing an over pair with a paired board, hand sample on that one coming.) I thought if I had read WLLHE I wouldn't be struggling with this quite as much, and the only true poker book I've read is SSHE and in the middle of The Theory of Poker.

What are peoples thoughts about this? Would I not be struggling so much post flop with calling too many bets because I don't have that WLLHE base?

[Cardzy]

I've read both. Best post flop strategy in WLLH is the check-raise. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif For post-flop improvement, SSH is the best book out there in my opinion. Read and re-read it, you can't help but improve.

[dealer_toe]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (20.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

Hands like this I justify by the size of the pot. And what I think is some SSH strategy. I think this play is pretty aweful, and there are some other situations that aren't quite as bad, but I leak 1 or 2 bets here and there.

just saw it for the first time since it happened. what the heck was I thinking? I may have had the odds to draw to my two outs, but the pot was probably just under and I think i justified it with implied odds, always a good cop out to draw to those 2-outers. Don't even kick me about the river call..i know i know i know.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this I justify by the size of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

that doesnt sound good. looking for reasons to call?

[Rudbaeck]

If you want to read a book now that will tighten up your postflop play go for Middle Limit Hold'em by Ciaffone.

[exist]

I suggest you read Middle Limit Holdem Poker by Ciaffone and Brier.

[The Truth]

In the posted hand, Raise the turn.
I agree read the Ciaffone and Brier book.

[dealer_toe]

Thanks guys, I'll pick up Mid-Limit Hold 'em.

MarkL, I know its pretty pitiful.

Thanks again

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
In the posted hand, Raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree.

OP, from looking at this one hand it seems like you are not doing enough hand reading, try harder to put your opponents on a hand

[Malcom Reynolds]

I think you should fold on the turn. Between BB and MP3, one of them probably has the flush draw and one of them has the T. Meaning that you are drawing to two outs and still could lose.

There isn't enough to draw to two outs on the turn, and even if you add in some slight chance you are ahead, BB is likely to raise as he capped the flop, unless he is the one on the flush draw.

It's just that people don't 3-bet and cap a paired flop with less than a T and/or a flush draw, and it's rare that both are on the flush draw and play it that aggressively on the flop.

I don't think this is a matter of needing weak tight advice or whatever, you just need to apply some hand reading, and counting your outs on the range of hands you have your opponents on.

[dealer_toe]

i disagre w/ the turn raise to. Granted it was a raise or fold situation, Fold was by far more correct. You're probably right about not reading peoples hands enough. I need to be more like a quarter back and go through my progressions in a hand, and one of those progressions is putting my opponents on a hand (cheesy analogy I know).
It seems to me I get sloppy at times and it costs me.

[Malcom Reynolds]

It's just that people don't 3-bet and cap a paired flop with less than a T and/or a flush draw, and it's rare that both are on the flush draw and play it that aggressively on the flop.

There's also a chance that he is 3-betting with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, most of which beat you, and you're drawing to the same number of outs as if you were against the trips.