PS $20 rebuy NLHE hand I screwed up bad

[Toro]

Last night's PokerStars $20 NLHE rebuy tourney. We are close to the money but that's not my concern because the real money is at the final table as you are all well aware.

Well, I may be playing results, but I made a real bad play. I won't say what it was until I get some responses as I would really like to know what the "correct" play should be. Without further adieu here's the hand and what is my play here after the flop?

*********** # 176 **************
PokerStars Game #1007967213: Tournament #4179784, Hold'em No Limit - Level X
(400/800) - 2004/12/27 - 22:44:41 (ET)
Table '4179784 15' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ken brooks (57299 in chips)
Seat 2: Jaden4200 (34926 in chips)
Seat 3: YULivin4 (25152 in chips)
Seat 4: jkk4life (8150 in chips)
Seat 5: ambi (7455 in chips)
Seat 6: Fiiil (20446 in chips)
Seat 7: Toro85 (39062 in chips)
Seat 8: Jayrule (16685 in chips)
Seat 9: controversy (16838 in chips)
ken brooks: posts the ante 50
Jaden4200: posts the ante 50
YULivin4: posts the ante 50
jkk4life: posts the ante 50
ambi: posts the ante 50
Fiiil: posts the ante 50
Toro85: posts the ante 50
Jayrule: posts the ante 50
controversy: posts the ante 50
ken brooks: posts small blind 400
Jaden4200: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [Qs Ac]
YULivin4: folds
jkk4life: folds
ambi: folds
Fiiil: folds
Toro85: raises 1600 to 2400
Jayrule: folds
controversy: folds
ken brooks: calls 2000
Jaden4200: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ah Th 2h]
ken brooks: checks

[Lloyd]

Any reads on the villain?

[Toro]

He played a lot of hands so he could be holding a wide range of hands. In other words I didn't put him on a big hand for his pre flop call.

[Lloyd]

Well there's about 6K in the pot. You're obviously afraid of the hearts but if you check and he bets you don't know if he's got them or is just sensing your weakness. You've got enough chips to bet the flop without being pot committed so I'd lead out for about 4K.

If he calls, the pots at 14K. If the turn is not a heart, I'd make a half-size bet of 7K. That doesn't give him odds to call but still doesn't pot commit you. If the turn is a heart, I think I'd check-fold.

If he raises either the flop or the turn I'd probably fold depending upon the odds I was getting.

[drewjustdrew]

He played a lot of hands, but was he tricky, or did he play very aggressively?

If not, I would bet about $4000. This lets him know you are serious and lets you know he has a decent hand if he calls. It also give him an incorrect price to draw on a single heart.

If he is tricky, I would make a bigger bet and really send a message. If he can come over the top all-in from a pot sized bet, you probably have a safe fold. Even if he is on a draw, you wouldn't want to go broke here. You would still be left with over $25000 or so.

[Goodie54]

I think I would bet somewhere around 6 to 7 thousand and probably fold to a raise. All in seems reckless and betting more seems reckless. Checking just gives up too much.

Peace

Goodie

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would bet somewhere around 6 to 7 thousand and probably fold to a raise. All in seems reckless and betting more seems reckless. Checking just gives up too much.

Peace

Goodie

[/ QUOTE ]

All-in was reckless. Here's the rest of the hand:


Toro85: bets 36612 and is all-in
ken brooks: calls 36612
*** TURN *** [Ah Th 2h] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [Ah Th 2h Kc] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ken brooks: shows [Jh 9h] (a flush, Ace high)
Toro85: shows [Qs Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
ken brooks collected 79274 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 79274 | Rake 0
Board [Ah Th 2h Kc Qd]
Seat 1: ken brooks (small blind) showed [Jh 9h] and won (79274) with a flush,
Ace high
Seat 2: Jaden4200 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: YULivin4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jkk4life folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ambi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Fiiil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Toro85 showed [Qs Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 8: Jayrule folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: controversy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

At least the guy used my chips wisely. He won the tourney!

[Hotrod0823]

Hmm. Tricky I think I would bet out little less than the pot say 4-5K, fold to a reraise and very likely fold to a turn bet or check through.

Don't want to give up on the flop but not too eager to fire the second barrel on the turn.

He has you covered so is probably the only stack at the table not to be fooling around with at this stage.

What range of hands is he calling with that you are behind? KQs, TT, AA? I think the flush is unlikely but wouldn't discount AT or TT most likely.

I think AA would reraise you PF and the KhQh is going to call your raise or possibly c/r you all in allowing you to get away from the hand.

I'd bet it out and fold to any reraise and fold to any large turn or river bets.

[Prime Time]

A continuation bet is necessary. Now the question is how much?
I would have lead out about half to 2/3 of the pot.

If he calls now, you should have alarm bells ringing. And now proceed w/ caution.

If he raises you, you have to think does he have an A w/ a weak heart, or a made flush, a set, A 10, Kh?

By pushing, you do not allow yourself to get away from this.

Why am I giving you advice, I busted out b4 you w/ a real dumb play, and besides,
You are much better than me.

PGA71

[Goodie54]

I figured the bad play was either all in or check.

Tough break.

Peace

Goodie

[tiger7210]

I make about a 3/4 to pot sized bet here. Stacks are still very deep here and if he comes back over the top you can still get away from the hand. If he smooth calls your bet I would then proceed with extreme caution since you still have plenty of chips behind in relation to the blinds.

The way you play the rest of the hand then becomes read dependent on how you view your opponent. Is he a solid tricky player who could be trapping or someone who has just been getting lucky catching cards to build his stack.

Without a heart in your hand, I'm not looking to go broke here.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
(400/800)
Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ken brooks (57299 in chips)
Seat 7: Toro85 (39062 in chips)


ken brooks: posts small blind 400

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [Qs Ac]
YULivin4: folds
jkk4life: folds
ambi: folds
Fiiil: folds
Toro85: raises 1600 to 2400
Jayrule: folds
controversy: folds
ken brooks: calls 2000
Jaden4200: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ah Th 2h]
ken brooks: checks

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so you're 2nd chip stack at this table and tackling with the big stack, always risky, but potentially profitable as well.

You make the standard 3x the BB raise from 800 to 2400, and the big stack in the SB calls the extra 2000 chips and is heads-up with you.

The flop gives you top pair but no draw to the flush. Your opponent, figuring he could get you heads-up, could hold 7/8 of hearts for all we know.

With a little over 6K chips in the pot pre-flop, there's a tidy sum to be won. Your opponent has checked to you. You have position.

You could bet out 3-4K in chips and your opponent may fold ,or may re-raise you (or trap you by calling if he's got the flush or a strong draw to it)

You could check also, take the free card and see what develops. Even if another heart comes up, your opponent may worry that you are trying to trap him and check again.

The question is: Do you want to give him a potential draw to the flush, can you move him off his hand now and take it down?

If your opponent has the flush, it's unlikely he'll let it go, even if it's a small flush. If he's got a high card for the flush draw, he'll probably smooth-call or maybe even re-raise your bet on the flop.

So, here's what I think:

1. IF YOUR OPPONENT HAS A HIGH HEART OR THE FLUSH ALREADY: Your bet will not be enough to move him off the hand. He'll either smooth-call and possibly outdraw you, or he'll reraise you and you'll fold.

2. IF YOUR OPPONENT DOESN'T HAVE THE FLUSH DRAW: Your bet might move him off his hand, although if he's got two pair or a set he may re-raise to test you, and you'd probably fold.

I might take the free card here and see what develops, instead of allowing him to push you out of the pot with a re-raise. I don't put your opponent on A/10 here or a set. And I don't think if he's got the flush or draw that you'll push him out, so checking for the free card is my play.

If there's no heart on the turn, then I'd bet out (if he checks) If he bets on the turn, I like a smooth call to the river.

This way you don't really reveal the strength of your hand, as too strong a bet may make him realize you don't have the flush or the draw to it.