PDA

View Full Version : KQ utg, two passive callers.


what
12-28-2004, 01:56 PM
Both other players in the hand had similar stats: slightly loose preflop (30ish VPIP) and a total aggression factor >1

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (9.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

An open straight draw on a not too threatening board, I figure I might as well bet to see if I can steal this.

Turn: (6.66 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

The 3d doesnt mean much, I continue with the semi-bluff. Should I have checked here against these fairly passive opponents and hoped for a free card? If someone bet I would call anyway and I figured a raise was unlikley so I bet.

River: (8.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Damn, missed my draw. I don't think he could have been calling with less then K high.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB

Munga30
12-28-2004, 02:00 PM
This is fine. Checking the turn is fine, too, but brings with it its own tough decisions. I think an NPA said playing overcards on the turn is one of the hardest decisions in limit holdem. Or something....

Redeye
12-28-2004, 02:01 PM
The flop is really more of a value bet than trying to steal the pot, but I would definately jam your draw w/ this board.

I would've checked the turn though. If these guys are loose passive calling station types, they will call you down no matter what and you are just wasting a bet. However, they may check through giving you a free card.

Nutz&Boltz
12-28-2004, 02:04 PM
The turn semibluff vs 3 players isn't correct. I check call here.

Also, I'm wondering if the raise preflop has +EV. Anyone else raz here?

Redeye
12-28-2004, 02:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'm wondering if the raise preflop has +EV. Anyone else raz here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I always raise UTG with KQo and AJo. I think its fine, but I don't know how much greater EV it is than just calling.

ReMMy
12-28-2004, 02:22 PM
There's really no value in betting the turn. AJo and KQo from UTG really aren't strong hands and simply tossing them will really have almost no effect on your win rate either way.

ReMMy

what
12-28-2004, 05:33 PM
In my database of 80k hands during which my standard play was to raise an unraised pot in early position with AJ or KQ, in the positions of UTG+1, UTG+2 and UTG+3 AJ has earned me an average of .5 BB per hand and KQ .6 BB per hand. Those numbers can really add up multi-tabling.

Bad player will call with worse hands and good players, fearing a T/A's EP raise will sometimes fold better hands.

It's not really worth debating, and I know the effect on the bottom line is not huge. My sample size might be a bit small too, but I do believe raising here is the correct play at Party 3/6.

Avatar
12-28-2004, 05:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There's really no value in betting the turn. AJo and KQo from UTG really aren't strong hands and simply tossing them will really have almost no effect on your win rate either way.

ReMMy

[/ QUOTE ]

They have clear +EV value at most chosen 2/4 and 3/6 party tables. Your leaving too much money on the table to not play them, plus it doesn't help your game any by mucking them.