Jones and Miller Books

[flapgreen]

Is SSHE and low limit HE applicable to nl as they are with limit? I've read great things about both of them and plan on buying them this week and wondered.

[Rudbaeck]

Neither is applicable to NL. You want Harrington on Hold'em.

[flapgreen]

Thanks man. Any other suggestions on NL. Just bought McEvoy and Daugherty's book.

[Rudbaeck]

Ciaffone&Brier Pot- and No-limit hold'em.

There are few decent NL books out there. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Ciaffone&Brier Pot- and No-limit hold'em.

There are few decent NL books out there. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's Ciaffone & Reuben for the NL/PL book. The Brier book is limit.

Regards,

T

[flapgreen]

I'll use this thread to ask another question. Someone stated in another thread that it's better to start with limit and move up to nl. Why is that?

[AncientPC]

Less risk.

You're a losing player when you first start out, at least in limit it'll just call you a few BB to call someone down but in NL it can easily be a stack.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll use this thread to ask another question. Someone stated in another thread that it's better to start with limit and move up to nl. Why is that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the skill gap is smaller in limit. In NL any newbie has got to expect to be sucked dry over and over and over again by skilled players.

Get your basic tuition cheaper. Once you can calculate all the odds etc in your head at 4 am while drunk switch to NL if you find it more fun.

[SheridanCat]

I would suggest you start a new thread. That said, I think limit is easier for beginners for a few reasons.

1) It's easier to control the downside. However, it should be noted that NL is usually considered to have less variance than limit. Experience NL players tend to be more wary and cautious since any move could jeopardize their entire stack.

2) NL punishes chasers more than limit. Since beginners often like to chase draws, and since they are more often getting the odds to draw in limit, it's a safer game. In NL, you are rarely getting the correct odds to draw at a hand. That assumes your opponents have half a clue or bumble into the correct play.

3) NL is a game of implied odds. Limit is a game of pot odds. Pot odds are often much easier to compute at the table since knowing implied odds requires the ability to read hands well and read the other players well. Beginner's are doing good to figure if they have the proper pot odds to take a card off.

I'm sure there are counter reasons, but I think it's clear that NL punishes unskilled players more than limit.

Regards,

T

[flapgreen]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I should've started another thread but I hated to keep bothering everyone with a different thread every day. I have so many questions about this game. Thanks for your patience.

[SheridanCat]

Remember that when you're starting a new thread you're not just helping yourself, you're helping everyone who came looking for an answer. If you bury a topic in another topic, it becomes harder for others to find.

Also, you're not bothering anyone here.

Regards,

T

[flapgreen]

Will do.

[AKQJ10]

If we ever get an FAQ, the NL/LHE question would be a good one to include.

[jackaaron]

But, why would someone play limit hold 'em, and get use to that style where bluffing has much less of an effect? In limit, no one cares if you're bluffing if they have a good hand because they won't lose much. In limit, it's COMPLETELY different. If I'm wrong, let me know...

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
But, why would someone play limit hold 'em, and get use to that style where bluffing has much less of an effect? In limit, no one cares if you're bluffing if they have a good hand because they won't lose much. In limit, it's COMPLETELY different. If I'm wrong, let me know...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong.

Bluffing does work in limit, you just have to know how to bluff. If you just bluff at NL by shoving your stack in, you'll go broke. Same with limit. You bluff the scare cards and situations. You must pick the spot in limit just as in no-limit.

Why people think bluffing never works in limit is beyond me. Also, I think people often over-emphasize the importance of bluffing in all forms of poker.

Of course, if you find yourself in a limit game where no one will respect a bluff, you don't bluff. Same goes for a no-limit game.

Regards,

T

[smoore]

Bluffing is overrated by most new players both in limit and in NL. I bluff quite a bit by my standards at 2/4 party limit. That is to say about 1 in 50 of my hands contains either a bald bluff or a really crappy (read: gutshot) draw when a scary board comes out. I think a "normal" amount of bald bluffs would be more like 1 in 100 in a moderately tight game. I'm constantly semibluffing OESD and four flush situations because when they hit I want to get paid.

I take down quite a few pots where there is no way I'm ahead (in my mind) because to my opponents it seems that every time I turn a hand over it's goot... That's when you can consider pulling this stuff. I also get picked off sometimes but hey, that's just advertising, right? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

It's pretty easy to pick up the right pots with a bluff, the're almost always small. Nearly impossible to push two 2/4 party players off of a large pot, you're going to have to assemble and show down the best hand to take it.

You also must learn who is bluffable and who isn't. The wonderful calling stations that make us so much money are the worst people to try to bluff. They are unbluffable because a calling station... calls. This is true whether it's 2/4 party limit (my current crackpipe) or $5-$20 PokerStars SnG NLHE tournaments (where I cut my teeth)

I say learn how to beat limit, then learn the differences in a NL game. Your life will be much, much easier. I lost a LOT of money (thousands) learning NL that I wouldn't have had I done it the other way around. Got my skills sorted out, got even and built a roll. Limit is where the fish are though /images/graemlins/grin.gif

edit: I'm semibluffing into multiway large pots most of the time and advertising is also WAY overrated by new players.

[jackaaron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, why would someone play limit hold 'em, and get use to that style where bluffing has much less of an effect? In limit, no one cares if you're bluffing if they have a good hand because they won't lose much. In limit, it's COMPLETELY different. If I'm wrong, let me know...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong.

Bluffing does work in limit, you just have to know how to bluff. If you just bluff at NL by shoving your stack in, you'll go broke. Same with limit. You bluff the scare cards and situations. You must pick the spot in limit just as in no-limit.

Why people think bluffing never works in limit is beyond me. Also, I think people often over-emphasize the importance of bluffing in all forms of poker.

Of course, if you find yourself in a limit game where no one will respect a bluff, you don't bluff. Same goes for a no-limit game.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really good information. I understand what you are saying. You can bluff in both situations, however, it's as the situation warrants bluffing based on all the cards, and not just randomly deciding it's a good time to bluff.