BB special flops a straight -- tough river fold

[private joker]

This pot is really big, but I can't imagine my hand is good by the river. Not even once in 25 times. Maybe 1 in 50. This river fold hurt, but I think calling would have sucked worse than this hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (14.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (17.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

[Avatar]

I definately don't think the pot is large enough for you to call this river.

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
This pot is really big, but I can't imagine my hand is good by the river. Not even once in 25 times. Maybe 1 in 50. This river fold hurt, but I think calling would have sucked worse than this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

After that flop action, how often is A high caling your river bet in a multi-way pot to make it worth it? I check and see what the action is behind you.

[Freakin]

*EDIT*
Deleted... i realized I didn't make sense and didn't want to rewrite my post...

Freakin

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


After that flop action, how often is A high caling your river bet in a multi-way pot to make it worth it? I check and see what the action is behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think betting and folding to a raise is preferable to check-calling. Why? Uh... let someone smarter than me explain.

[mikeyvegas]

I understand the logic of that. But with that board and that action, is there really "value" it that bet?

[Harv72b]

This one really bothers me. Anyone who raises that river should have you beat, but what on earth is UTG+2 playing that way which would beat you (and would be even remotely playable from UTG+2)?

He could be on pockets, although it would almost have to be an overpair, and if so why on earth wouldn't he raise the flop? I would also expect a raise from 55, what with the OESD &amp; a rags board there.

A6s or A4s are possible, I suppose, but is he really going to call 3 cold on the flop with that? I suppose it's possible on 2/4 Party, but man...I'd pay the extra $4 just for the note if he made that play. Even if he was holding the 7...3 cold??

Given the way he played the hand and the size of the pot, I'd go ahead and call 1 more bet on the river, expecting to see him raising with A high at least 5% of the time, maybe with a busted flush draw. And I happily make my note on the times I'm wrong.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I think betting and folding to a raise is preferable to check-calling. Why? Uh... let someone smarter than me explain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally I agree, but here, against unknowns, I'm not so sure. Because there is a good chance these guys are on a flush draw. Since your hand looks made, an astute and aggressive player might see this as a chance to bluff-raise. Does this happen more than 1 time in 18? Quite possibly. I think I want to see a showdown.

gm

[stinkypete]

with no reads that's an easy easy call.

checking and calling is better, especially if you plan to fold to a raise. there's no value bet there but you may be able to induce a bluff.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
with no reads that's an easy easy call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? You think he raises with ace-high? King-high? The only thing I beat is a river bluff, and those are really rare on boards and tables like this. I think this is a tough fold or a bad call. Maybe it's a good check/call. But it's not an "easy easy" bet/call a raise.

EDIT: I saw you added the "induce a bluff" strategy, and that's why I now think check/calling is better. But given that I bet, I can't imagine the raiser has a worse hand than I do. Any pocket pair beats me, as does any 4 or 6.

[Alexthegreat]

I see no reason not to check-call....You aren't making a value bet here, so betting the river and folding to a raise seems like a waste of a BB to me....

I could see betting to make someone with a better hand fold, but that's not going to happen enough times for a bet to be correct....

I also would not be concerned about this being checked through...

It's not going to be a case of you being pushed off the best hand here if you check and it ends up being 2 bets back to you....

And you aren't going to bet and call a raise.....

So why are you betting??

[Shillx]

Check/calling the river is almost certainly the correct strategy in a pot this size. If the pot were half this size, then it might not be the case.

Brad

[Alexthegreat]

[ QUOTE ]
But given that I bet, I can't imagine the raiser has a worse hand than I do. Any pocket pair beats me, as does any 4 or 6.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is why check-calling is by far the best line.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
with no reads that's an easy easy call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? You think he raises with ace-high? King-high? The only thing I beat is a river bluff, and those are really rare on boards and tables like this. I think this is a tough fold or a bad call. Maybe it's a good check/call. But it's not an "easy easy" bet/call a raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

okay, i was exaggerating. it's not "easy easy". but i do think he's bluffing often enough to call it down. maybe i'm wrong.

[sfer]

Betting the river was a little silly.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting the river was a little silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but given that I did, how was the fold?

[sfer]

The fold is fine. But checking and calling a single bet is better.