good all-in?

[jt1]

PP mulit table tournament. blinds are 50-100. top 9 are in the money. there are 60 people left. MP1 and MP2 limp. Both cover Hero. Hero has 2500 in chips and black 8's on the button.

Hero raises to 300. Blinds fold. first limper calls and the second folds. The first limper has 3000 chips. I have him labeled as loose passive because earlier he limped in EP with Q9o and flopped top pair in an unraised pot. He got bet into and simply called down the whole way. However, he has won the last three pots without a showdown by representing strong hands. I thought he would call any size raise up to about 1000 chips. I wasn't sure about the blinds or MP2.

(850) 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Limper bets 150. Hero goes all in.

[Lloyd]

Starting pre-flop: I would just limp here and not raise. Pocket 8s are a decent hand but with two limpers I'd just try to play for set value here. If I was going to raise, I'd make it 500 because of the limpers. 300 offers them too good of odds to stay in the pot if they have a speculative hand.

There is T850 in the pot and he leads out for just 150. More often then not, that's someone on a draw. If they had a real hand they'd at least bet half the pot to protect against the draw. The only choices are to fold or raise, calling is just playing right into what he wants. Your read is that he's a loose player so he could easily have a 9, but that's being a bit pessimistic in my opinion. It just seems like he's on a draw and you probably have the best hand. A normal raise would be T1200 which commits over half your stack to the pot. Therefore, if you're going to play you need to push.

This all comes down to your read of the opponent and what his miniscule bet means. I think it means draw and if it were me I'd push.

[TheJackal]

Bad all in I think. Sure some hands you are ahead, but I think you are only going to get called if you are behind, (if he is loose passive, he isnt going to give you action on an A6, A5, 44, 33, 22, or overcards). Even if he has a flush draw with an overcard, he'll call and it'll be a coinflip, but that is best case scenerio for you. I think I would call the flop bet, see if he bets the turn, if I improve to a straight or he checks to me on the turn, I would probably bet, but I think the flop all-in is a bit reckless.

[TheJackal]

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There is T850 in the pot and he leads out for just 150. More often then not, that's someone on a draw.

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That is not entirely true. Sometimes people use the weak lead with a big hand because they want their opponents to think of the bet as if they missed and are just hoping to take the pot down. I think calling is a good move here because you get to see the turn cheaply without risking too many chips in case he flopped a monster, and since he has position can see if he fires at him again. If he missed and is loose passive, he will most likely slow down and check the turn, in which case you make your decision from there.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is T850 in the pot and he leads out for just 150. More often then not, that's someone on a draw.

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That is not entirely true. Sometimes people use the weak lead with a big hand because they want their opponents to think of the bet as if they missed and are just hoping to take the pot down. I think calling is a good move here because you get to see the turn cheaply without risking too many chips in case he flopped a monster, and since he has position can see if he fires at him again. If he missed and is loose passive, he will most likely slow down and check the turn, in which case you make your decision from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. That's why I said

[ QUOTE ]
This all comes down to your read of the opponent and what his miniscule bet means. I think it means draw and if it were me I'd push.

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[dr_zorba]

You played it the way Super System recommends dealing with post-oak bluffs -- ALLin, baby. But that was written 25 years ago. If you had also bet the 8s as recommended in SS (limp), ALLin makes a lot more sense.

HOWEVER -- you raised PF which changes the picture. Op's call -- WITH ANOTHER PLAYER YET TO SPEAK -- declares he has a real hand that he is going to play against your BB.

Another troubling possibility: he's been on a rush of good hands (or bluffing like crazy) and didn't get any action on the last few good hands so he decided to slow play the next big hand and limp along. He may be drooling...

It did not occur to me to push in. In fact, the idea is shocking. (Shows you how timid I am, I suppose.)

[zaxx19]

I have him labeled as loose passive because earlier he limped in EP with Q9o and flopped top pair in an unraised pot. He got bet into and simply called down the whole way.

Depending on the betting amounts Im not sure Id label him anything from this play. Hard to reraise with q9 there and hard to not call the turn if it isnt a big best...then the river becomes an autocall almost if it isnt a large bet.