KK should i get away from it?

[PokeHer]

SB i have 33 hands on. He is very passive after the flop (.53 aggro-tot) and his VPIP is 55%.

MP2 is a decent player. He is tight preflop- VPIP is 9.7%. PFR is pretty normal at 6.85%. Aggro-tot is 1.8. 72 hands on him.


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Anyone cap the flop? After this guy's 3-bet i thought i was beat, but had to call the other 1 SB.


Turn: (13 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Still, I think im beat on the turn, but now i have the flush and K outs, so if i dont call, I might as well kill myself.

River: (16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Here, I still think I'm beat, but 1 in 18 times, it might be an overplayed AQ, though it doesnt seem like this guy would play AQ that way. Anyone lay down on this river?

Final Pot: 19 BB

[sfer]

Don't think of this hand as something you could get away from. You played it fine.

[jt1]

Don't be folding no overpairs. 3 way, cap the flop and slow down if he re-takes the lead on the turn.

[sfer]

Hero knows the villain to be reasonable and decent. Villain capped preflop. I think the 3-bet on the flop is enough aggression to start slowing down.

[Cardzy]

I don't think you could get away from it and would have played it the same way. It could be AQ played that way, but with a tightwad of 9.7% I tend to put him more on QQ. Either way I couldn't fold it without being sure.

[Nutz&Boltz]

I would cap the flop because of the other player. You don't have to be in the lead to make this the right play.

[MercTec]

What about the line of calling the flop and raising the turn? You could still possibly have the best hand, you have a redraw to the second nut flush and you give SB bad odds to chase a gutshot. Getting 3bet would suck, but tighty might become afraid at the flush possibility and slow down.

[ElSapo]

I'd consider raising the turn, with the K /images/graemlins/club.gif in my hand.

EDIT -- The more I think about this, the more I just call it down. But no, you can't fold this, ever.

[PokeHer]

[ QUOTE ]
What about the line of calling the flop and raising the turn? You could still possibly have the best hand, you have a redraw to the second nut flush and you give SB bad odds to chase a gutshot. Getting 3bet would suck, but tighty might become afraid at the flush possibility and slow down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could not care less about the SB hitting a gutshot. That idea would be OK if I knew that the turn would be a club, but, unfortunately, I am not Nostradomis

[MercTec]

I wasn't really clear in my previous post. Without knowing the turn card, calling the flop is not a bad play. Do you want to play a big pair heads up or against multiple opponents? If he is a calling station and he is chasing, at least give him poor odds to do so. Granted that the opponent you want to worry about is the preflop capper. But how would you feel if the river looks harmless and you lose to the SB when he hit a gutshot?

You've committed yourself to a showdown with a preflop raising war unless it gets real ugly...I think raising the turn rather than the flop gives you a better chance to win.

[Alexthegreat]

You think he has you beat after he 3-bets the flop?? What do you think he has before the 3-bet??

I really don't understand that kind of thinking....If he has you beat, you don't have the odds to call. So you should fold. But you called, so you must not have thought he had you beat.

In which case you really should have raised the turn, for value and because you have the second nut flush draw, and because you want the SB to come along for his draw at the wrong price....Then you can take the free showdown......

Just cause someone 3-bets the flop, it doesn't mean that they have a monster hand....You need to be remember that you have a pretty nice hand yourself, and are probably ahead....

If you REALLY do have a feeling that you are behind, cap the flop and fold the turn if he bets....He's making a much more convincing argument leading the turn after you cap, and folding your hand is probably wise.

[PokeHer]

I dont think Im beat because someone 3-bet. I think im beat because this guy 3-bet. With his PF cap, i put him on AA, QQ AK or the unlikely KK and possibly AQs. He would not play the flop like that with AK. Therefore, he has either AA or QQ, with the small possibilities of KK or AQs. I thought that i was likely beat but since i had the backdoor flush draw as well i chose to call the flop 3-bet.

The only thing i agree that i could have done is raise the turn. But i didnt want to, again, because i thought i was behind, and with 11 outs with only the river left and the possibility of a 3-bet, i didnt like the idea. i really was not worried about the SB, and it did not even concern me that he was in the hand. in the end, that fish showed 99.

[sfer]

This makes no sense to me.

[JinX11]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has you beat, you don't have the odds to call. So you should fold. But you called, so you must not have thought he had you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is awful advice. Hero cannot be for sure he's beat. This could easily be AQ when Villian three bets the flop. YOU CANNOT FOLD THIS!

[ QUOTE ]
you really should have raised the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

We can agree here - for different reasons, however: I still think he's ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
If you REALLY do have a feeling that you are behind, cap the flop and fold the turn if he bets

[/ QUOTE ]

We're off track again. If you REALLY do have a feeling that you are behind, call the 3-bet and look at the next card. When the third club hits, he *has* to stay for one bet (when, in reality, he should raise)