Interesting HU 100-200 hand [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Shawn Keller

12-27-2004, 08:02 AM

chickenlittl: posts small blind $50
copi: posts big blind $100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chickenlittl [Qs Qd]
gollfbum: folds
AmazingGrace: folds
ns6991: folds
youngluck: folds
chickenlittl: calls $50
copi: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 4s 5h]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** TURN *** [Th 4s 5h] [Jc]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** RIVER *** [Th 4s 5h Jc] [9s]
chickenlittl: checks
copi: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chickenlittl: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
copi: mucks hand
chickenlittl collected $197 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $200 | Rake $3
Board [Th 4s 5h Jc 9s]
Seat 1: chickenlittl (small blind) showed [Qs Qd] and won ($197) with a
pair of Queens
Seat 2: copi (big blind) mucked [8h 3d]
Seat 5: gollfbum folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AmazingGrace folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ns6991 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: youngluck (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I wouldn't always play this hand this way, its a serious slowplay, i was trying to induce a bluff or maybe a river valuebet from a 9, i figured he didn't have a calling hand and he wouldn't have been able to call any bets throughout the hand. ALso copi is rather aggressive and would frequently raise preflop in that spot.

What do you all think?

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Macdaddy Warsaw

12-27-2004, 09:05 AM

Maybe...just...maybe...you should bet at some point. Let's say...Preflop.

Just saying. But you're very good. And you offer your services at the low, low price of $500 / hour. So, I'm probably wrong.

daryn

12-27-2004, 09:24 AM

chickenlittl on stars? big fish i heard.

Chris Daddy Cool

12-27-2004, 10:01 AM

if you say he's aggressive then you should probably bet this flop and let him overplay his hand or bluff or whatever. he either will or won't give you some action here.

sublime

12-27-2004, 10:04 AM

nice hand

Shawn Keller

12-27-2004, 10:05 AM

lol I'll win $1 off you for everypost you ever made on this website whats your handle on PS? You got 6k on there bro put that glimmer in play or don't be runnin your mouth.

Chickenlittl

sublime

12-27-2004, 10:07 AM

chickenlittl on stars? big fish i heard.

hey man, this guys gives lessons. you should watch what you say.

theBruiser500

12-27-2004, 10:13 AM

i like this play, you lose some money though post flop if he is also slowplaying somethin like top pair. on the turn though and river mos tpeople will value bet almost any hand that they'd call your bet with, plus they will bluff some so the net gain by your play is you gain vs. bluffs. that's how i look at it when i do this in NL at least maybe the logic is a little different in limit. very hard to make this play when i see queens i want to bet. also on the river he maybe call a bet with say bottom pair or even ace high but check behind if you check to him.

Shawn Keller

12-27-2004, 10:37 AM

I give beatings and I taunt with the prospect of giving "higher education."

naphand

12-27-2004, 11:45 AM

If this is an "interesting" hand on $100/$200 then I dread to think what constitutes a "boring" hand. Is it really that hard to get bets out of the other players?

Tosh

12-27-2004, 05:10 PM

What other hands would you limp with here preflop and how often?

Benman

12-27-2004, 05:49 PM

Shawn,

It's obvious that you've rubbed some of the regulars the wrong way with your instructional offer. Nevertheless, I have to say that all of your hand posts so far have been very enlightening to me. I hope you'll keep them coming.

To the others, if it's commonly understood that this guy is a winning 100/200 player (that's what we're hearing), then it's kinda just tough noogies that his offer comes across kind of arrogant, or he doesn't post in proper Bison format. I for one am on these forums to learn to get better, and a winning 100/200 player is a welcome contributor in my book.

helpmeout

12-27-2004, 10:12 PM

I'm guessing you figure him to raise any king any ace and any PP preflop so giving him unlimited freecards cant hurt you.

He wont call a bet with his trash so the only way to get extra money out of him is for him to catch a weaker pair, some kind of draw or as a bluff.

I wish I could make reads this good.

RunDownHouse

12-27-2004, 11:37 PM

I can catch the heavy sarcasm from about half of you, but others seem serious.

I mean... this IS a joke, right?

daryn

12-28-2004, 12:38 PM

yes

chicken i'll play you HU if you want but only up to 15/30. i don't have the bankroll for 100/200. i'm sure you understand, i mean would you want to flip coins with bill gates for $1M/flip?

sublime

12-28-2004, 12:48 PM

go get em!

daryn "rainstorm" umasser!

LA_Price

12-28-2004, 03:11 PM

I'd like this play better if it were aces or kings rather than queens. Were you intending to limp-reraise?

Festus22

12-28-2004, 03:55 PM

I've watched this game a ton lately and the PF SB complete has meant strength more often than not. It is such a rare play in that game and it looks mighty suspicious. Do you think your opponent picked up on this? Had you been just calling with your marginal SB hands up to this point as well?

Shawn Keller

12-28-2004, 10:22 PM

I mix my play up very well, making very hard to discern from my headsup preflop actions (if I limp or raise) what the quality of my hand is in any given senario. My opponent checked because he had a very weak hand 83o, I think that was the most important factor to him in terms of his passive play.

QQ maybe I open raise 70% of the time in the small blind headsup against the big blind, If I limped and my opponent raised I would "probably" threebet but its not really essential against a lot of these opponents since some of them virtually always bet the flop if they raised preflop and u check to them. So if you don't sandbag preflop you have the option of checkraising the flop/turn.

Best of Luck!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Ulysses

12-29-2004, 02:10 AM

Nice! Looks like a HU challenge about to go down.

When's it gonna happen boys?

daryn

12-29-2004, 12:44 PM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Nice! Looks like a HU challenge about to go down.

When's it gonna happen boys?

[/ QUOTE ]

the master didn't accept yet /images/graemlins/frown.gif

he will probably say it's not worth his time /images/graemlins/wink.gif, i mean this guy can make $2,000/hr teaching people how to play poker.

barongreenback

12-29-2004, 12:46 PM

There are a lot of scary things at poker but what really keeps me awake at night and fills me with dread every time I play is that my opponents will check their big hands to the river.

naphand

12-29-2004, 05:05 PM

He's also got his "clients" to lose. If you win the HU challenge it means all his prospective pupils are gonna think twice about who they go to for advice... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Shawn Keller

12-31-2004, 03:42 AM

I'll play you or anyone else with something to prove headsup 80-160 or headsup 200-400.

No LOL I will not play you headsup 15-30 the 10-15 blind structure makes it so unpleasant in the first place, more importantly it is certainly not worth my time.

BTW for the people who have replied inquiring about personal instruction (yes there have been several inquires) I'll need at least 2-4 weeks notice before we set up a date also depending on the specifics, for example if you wanted 10 hours of instruction over 2 sessions and none of the action (I'd plan on most of the instruction after maybe the first hour, being me explaining online play while the student observes) I could cut the rate down to $400 an hour, $4000 total. I know its a lot of money to anyone, but my goal would be to increase your lifetime earn in the games I'm training you in by $10+ an hour.

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

The4Aces

12-31-2004, 04:49 AM

Hey, Your brother did the same thing aginst some drunk in the WSOP. And then he folded his pocket Qs and the other guy had 5/3 i bet your brother felt silly.

Tosh

12-31-2004, 09:10 AM

You challenge Daryn, he accepts and now to your surprise he accepts. So its time for you to wuss out I guess, classy.

naphand

12-31-2004, 10:23 AM

I would strongly advise anyone considering instruction to give this individual a wide berth. If he is so supremely arrogant (and he certainly seems that way) that he thinks $5K is good value for 10 hours of instruction then either he is the greatest teacher this planet has produced, or you are getting short-changed. There is almost no way that you can learn enough in 10 hours to make it worth paying this kind of money for the limits most forum players play at (most being $10/$20 or less). It is not worth your time.

If, indeed, the level of his instruction is so high to make the 10 hours valuable, you would have to be very good to start with, and be looking at playing a game that makes this kind of fee acceptable. At $100/$200 that is 25BB for 10 hours, or about 2.5 BB/hr. Seems reasonable. And don't take any BS about "making you a lifetime income" I get that kind sh1t spammed to me every day. Forget fees like this until you are:

(i) Playing at a very high level, with a strong game.
(ii) Looking to play in some high stakes (world-class) games ($100/$200 or perhaps something like $30/$60 minimum) on a regular basis.
(iii) Are in a position to assess this players abilities.

I would also strongly recommend you ask for references from previous "pupils" including evidence of how much more they have earned. Also I think some kind of written guarantee of results would be appropriate.

If this person is a great player, a great teacher, with a professional approach to his "instruction" he should have no problem providing references, evidence and some written guarantee. If he cannot, don't even think about it. Any financial advice you seek should be treated this way, you need professional conduct and guarantees before parting with large sums of money. Don't let anyone, no matter how gobby they get, talk you into anything without this.

The language this individual uses, and his attitude, while it may be common among winning players, is not one I would expect to find in a professional teacher with an active interest in providing you with a first class service. If he can prove me wrong, then let him and good for him. I suspect we will see nothing of the kind.

As for Daryn's challenge - good for you Daryn. You said he would find an excuse, and you were right. Exactly what did this individual expect you to play for? The $200/$400 thing is a joke, and he knows it.

Chickenlittl has chickened out. I would have thought that such a "world-class" teacher could have seen a match like this as a great marketing exercise, after all there would be a lot of people watching that game and he could "talk" people through his superior plays. It is possible to find other world class players playing at very low limits (there have been a few posts, the recent Erik123 HU one being an example) so the notion that is it "not worth his time" is BS. Anyone with any understanding of marketing (or even just enough confidence) would see such a challenge as a fantastic opportunity to establish credentials among a very influential group of poker thinkers. There would be a lot of people interested in this match-up, against one of the Forum's most respected heads-up players, and it would probably be discussed and talked about for some time afterwards, giving "the lightning" plenty of opportunity to further enhance his credentials with professional insight into the plays made (regardless of the result).

Find your tuition elsewhere, he doesn't care for it anyway. Looks like he cannot take the heat.

Benjamin

12-31-2004, 12:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would also strongly recommend you ask for references from previous "pupils" including evidence of how much more they have earned. Also I think some kind of written guarantee of results would be appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]
References are reasonable, a guarantee is not. How can he be responsible for how you put his teaching to effect? What if you're a basket-case under pressure who couldn't win if Doyle himself gave you 100 hours of coaching?

[ QUOTE ]
Any financial advice you seek should be treated this way, you need professional conduct and guarantees before parting with large sums of money. Don't let anyone, no matter how gobby they get, talk you into anything without this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will find few guarantees in the financial world, unless you want a low fixed rate return. Financial advisors and managers never offer guarantees that I'm aware of.

B.

naphand

12-31-2004, 03:35 PM

A good teacher will not take on head-case pupils, something to do with being able to produce a result and get references.

No guarantees in the financial markets. This is a joke right? It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the world. The UK has just seen one of the big 4 high street banks fined £millions and forced to write to every one of its customers for giving misleading advice.

If his promise is to help people earn more money, then he either backs that up with some kind of guarantee or he stops making the claim. Can he even show what kind of improvements his clients have had? Ever heard of dissatisfied customers asking for refunds? $5K up-front with no protection smacks of scam to me, if you want to see it as "opportunity" you can, it's your money.

I made no mention of a guarantee of profits, just some kind of results-based guarantee, that can take a lot of different forms than the one you have decided it is ($$ based). Take a job as a broker and they have an interest in making you a succesful broker for their company, that is a form of guarantee (i.e. that will train your properly and mentor you, and it is in their interests to do so). Free advertsing on the forum, no-one knows who he is, $5K up front, no promises. Yeah that sounds a good deal....are you really that naive?

EvanJC

12-31-2004, 03:45 PM

lol /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

RunDownHouse

12-31-2004, 03:46 PM

I don't understand why you're getting so upset and personally involved in this, Naphand. This guy is obviously an idiot, and anyone who would pay him thousands of dollars isn't too bright either. A fool and his money, as the eldest among us would say, and I don't see any need to keep bumping this thread to the top.

If you're really that concerned about others getting scammed, start a PM campaign to a mod to get him banned. But let's let it die here, ok?

naphand

12-31-2004, 03:49 PM

I am not upset, but I get the impression that there a quite a few forum users gullible enough to take this guy seriously, so I posted to draw attention to the shortcomings of what is on offer. Benjamins response should be evidence enough of how accepting people can be... /images/graemlins/mad.gif

But yes, it can die now.

daryn

12-31-2004, 10:37 PM

i understand how it is. i probably wouldn't play someone who challenged me at .50/1 stakes, and this guy is clearly a high roller.

for another interesting hand, check out my recent post in this forum.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif-daryn

stinkypete

01-01-2005, 07:39 AM

why would anyone pay you $400 an hour to do something you're going to do anyway?

and what is it that makes you worth $100 per hour more than 5 days ago (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1440884&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) ?

Shawn Keller

01-02-2005, 08:03 AM

Someday I hope you haters (who may not have $2000 to your name) will realize that how good a deal my offer to the RIGHT PERSON IN THE RIGHT SITUATION. This would mean someone who wanted to be a PROFESSIONAL texas holdem player, at at least the 15-30 limits. Also clearly the person should have some experience playing limit THE at least at the 3-6 level before they would want me to train them. Also they should have read Feeney's "inside the poker mind" and THFAP.

one more thing to keep in mind is that $2000 is a good session at the 15-30 levels, its a medium large size pot at the $100-$200 , and at $400-$800 well its 2.5 big bets. The impact that a 10 hour work session with me could have on one of my students could be tremendous 100+ times the $4000 cost if it helps them significantly towards becoming a long time professional.

Best of luck!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

helpmeout

01-02-2005, 08:28 AM

Only a mug is going to pay huge amounts of money to get coaching from a nobody.

If I want coaching I'd pay a known professional half what you charge.

Nothing personal but you are just another kid with a big ego.

ctv1116

01-02-2005, 09:10 AM

I'm sorry but it sounds like you're scared to lose. Let's say you wanted to play daryn in a $3000 freezeout (100BB). I'd estimate you could probably finish him off in about 5 hours. That's $600/hour. That would be more than the $400/hour or whatever you're charging for private lessons.

Oh, and you're refusal to play because the "stakes aren't high enough" sounds a lot like this letter (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14268). And daryn's response sounds a lot like Doyle Brunson's response (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14293). But that's just me.

naphand

01-02-2005, 10:05 AM

Not everybody is a "hater", some have concerns. You may be a world class player, I don't know, some question this and others support the notion. I reserve opinion on it. However, in order to be able to make such an offer you must not only be a great player but a good teacher, and for the fees you charge a highly professional service would be expected, along with some kind of support/guarantee. Of course "guarantee" is a big word and can mean many things, it does not have to mean a financial bond. You are also almost completely unknown on these boards. Many perhaps resent the idea that you appear to be making your posts not to discuss or stimulate, but merely to promote your services. This is a fraudulent use of the forum, and rightly deserves condemnation, if true.

We all know you do not have to be very good at prose to write book on poker, at least with the market as it stands now, you don't even have to be very good at poker. While it may not be necessary to behave professionally, with dignity and respect for others, challenges couched in such phrases as "You got 6k on there bro put that glimmer in play or don't be runnin your mouth." do not exactly inspire confidence in your teaching ability/professionalism. It sounds like you have something to prove.

You must have known when you challenged Daryn that he would not accept at the limits you currently play at, so your subsequent refusal makes you look fake. I would have thought playing a HU game against one of the Forums stronger HU players would be an excellent marketing opportunity, at the very least a chance to establish your credentials. You even talk in your recent post to those playing the $15/$30 game, and you must be aware that jumping up to high limits on a reduced bankroll is stupid. There is no way Daryn does this and you know it; your challenge looks disingenuous. Set a match and play a certain number of hands, enough so that you get to discuss hands on the Forum, to showcase yourself and you gain far more credibility than jumping into the forum and posting hands as an unknown, you could easily be a fake.

I am not saying you are a fake, I don't know, but where large sums of money are involved, professionalism and qualifications count. Maybe people still think the poker world is just a wild west shootout, and financial standards do not apply. This is wrong thinking IMO; set high standards and earn respect. Just because you play at $100/$200 does not entitle you to claim to be able to turn $3/$6 players into lifetime pros. Treat this forum with respect.

Michael Davis

01-02-2005, 10:10 AM

I think this is one of the best posts I've ever read.

-Michael

fsuplayer

01-02-2005, 12:05 PM

I second that.

oh...and keller still sucks.

Shawn Keller

01-02-2005, 01:34 PM

I agree with Michael Davis completely on that naphand's post is one of the best posts I've read of all time not just all year, I was thinking exactly that right after I read it and then I read your post next Michael and I.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm too tired right now to make a detailed reply to your post naphand. but I would like to apologize for any disprect or arrogance I may have inadvertently shown to the forum. I understand that many people do not know who I am (although they know Thunder is my twin brother, and that while they may know I win at the 100-200 game on pokerstars they also know that doesn't mean I'm a great teacher. I have years of experience teaching poker and breaking down hands, its actually one of if not my strongest points, my lack of tilt susceptibility would be perhaps my strongest point.

I have received several inquires about my services but also a few really nasty responses, as well as thebruiser's retard thread ect. I hope I didn't sink to there level, I don't doubt that Daryn is a solid player if he is willing to play me headsup 15-30. I'm ambivalent about playing him at any those stakes because as a true professional I look for weak opponents not opponents I assume to be skilled. I don't play poker to "beat the best" or prove that I'm the best, I play poker to make money and I like to play against weak competition. I don't have an big ego like some certain plays I just smile and take the money. Only when someone talks badly about my game do I challenge them, and yes you are correct I assumed he wouldn't accept but I really don't think I should be expected to play him that low stakes, the lowest stakes game I played yesterday for example was 80-160 headsup, then some 100-200 on PS, and 200-400 hu on UB. I would prefer if you gain my resepct from the quality of my posts and not through playing me headsup.

I whole heartedly agree with your theme of respecting the headsup-up and short-handed forum even though I didn't post a lot I've actually been a registered member longer than you have, I remember back when there was less "noise" and more valuable dicussion in most of the other forums and I would like the atmosphere to remain as friendly and conducive to learning poker theory as possible.

Please read my new 100-200 hand I posted in the headsup section I also posted a detailed description of why I played the hand in a post afterwards that I think you will find interesting.

Peace,

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Shawn Keller

01-02-2005, 02:14 PM

Naphand you seemed pretty upset and a bit quick to jump to judgement on me.

I have in no way shape or form backed down from playing daryn headsup. Keep in mind some of us aren't glued to the computer, just because I don't check the forum for 24 hours doesn't mean anything, I have a lot of responsiblities at this time. I could give several references but I don't feel comfortable doing that without there expressed permission first and probably not in this public forum.

Please understand sir that I'm not desperately out there trying to make an easy couple thousand "teaching" poker. I actually enjoy teaching people who really want to learn, I find it somewhat fulfilling. However I couldn't see myself eaching more than one student a month, since it is mentally exhausting. I will say that I probably have as much if not more experience teaching at the 15-30 limit level online than almost anyone else in the world.

PM if you are seriously interested I'll probably need at least a 30 days now advanced notice. I have two students I'm working with now that are almost ready to go pro, neither of them had ever played poker when I started teaching them but they were magic the gathering players. I haven't taught anyone from 2+2 yet so if I do teach one of you regulars you could always report back on the quality of service to the rest of the group. Also I'm gonna try to post at least one hand a week, probably some from the 15-30 limit, and I'll break it down for you like how I would if we were working together.

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

STLantny

01-02-2005, 02:32 PM

How much does David Sklansky charge for lessons, per hour?
I thought it was around the 300$ marker.

Your Mom

01-02-2005, 02:47 PM

Is there anything worse than sharing half a nickname with your brother? Lighting and Thunder? God, that's lame.

naphand

01-02-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I remember back when there was less "noise" and more valuable dicussion in most of the other forums

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember this too.

naphand

01-02-2005, 05:07 PM

Both responses from you have told the Forum much more about you than your original hand-posts did, and while I am not in a position to recommend you solely on the basis of them, what you have said and the way you have said it indicates a degree of professionalism that was not apparent previously. I am never the diplomat, and my posts tend to reflect my mood at the time of writing, but I always respect considered and thoughtful responses, particularly as I know I can be pretty brutal/sharp in what I say. Both your recent responses (above) have given me more confidence in you as an individual, and indicate a much deeper thought process than I had been able to determine to date. Please do not take my excoriating posts to mean I am dismissing you, I just tend to put people on the rack when they make big claims... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

cero_z

01-02-2005, 08:43 PM

Hi Lightning,

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not desperately out there ...

[/ QUOTE ]
--This is correct.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel comfortable doing that without there expressed permission...

[/ QUOTE ]
--This is not. "Their" is possessive. So, they're you are. That lesson is free. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

sublime

01-02-2005, 08:52 PM

shawn-

can you please stop posting hands that have your opponents names in them. its rude.

Stork

01-02-2005, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, they're you are.

[/ QUOTE ]
...
[ QUOTE ]
That lesson is free. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
And rightfully so.

Ikke

01-02-2005, 09:26 PM

I just skimmed through all the posts, but I just want to say that it quite amazes me all the heat you get on these forums. I've played you for some thousands of hands and I really like your attitude towards the game. When you say that you don't tilt I truly believe you.

Anyways, good luck to you.

Regards

grandgnu

01-02-2005, 09:43 PM

Geesh, get a load of this guy. $400 per hour? Are you fricken crazy man!?

Regardless of whether you are a winning 100/200 player, here's the thing: You lack a key poker trait: being humble.

This is purely based upon your posts in this thread, and thus I have no other data to back up this observation.

I recently happened upon an epiphany in my own play (and I'm not even close to a 15/30 player, right now just fiddling around with $100 or less buy-in multi-table tourneys)

I realized that whether I suffer a bad beat or just get outdrawn, run into a monster hand when I have a strong one myself, or whether I win a big pot or I'm chip leader.....I cannot allow the emotions to control me.

The ups and downs can certainly affect ones play tremendously. Maybe because I'm risking less money it's easier for me, but I figure with your bankroll the losses and wins are relative to my own.

If I beat my opponents, I will not gloat. If they beat me, I will not throw a temper tantrum. If my flopped set gets beat by runner-runner on one of the worst plays of the century, I will move on. I am Zen, and I will play a balanced and strong game of poker, and in the long run, I shall win more than I lose.

Your style of hubris, I feel, can only hurt your game. It appears to me that you are not in control of your emotions as much as one could be. Phil Hellmuth is an amazing poker player, but his instability, his ego, reduce his winnings.

I would much rather be an unknown player who makes a nice profit, than a well-known player who has reduced his earnings because he cannot control his emotions.

As others have said, you are virtually an unknown here, and I did not see the post where you offered lessons at such a high price. Given your ego (as I see it) I cannot see you as being as strong and balanced teacher as I would want.

I believe there are better ways for people to spend 4 grand.

Stork

01-02-2005, 10:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of whether you are a winning 100/200 player, here's the thing: You lack a key poker trait: being humble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure David Sklansky might argue that being a 'key poker trait'.

And I've read some of Shawn Keller's threads here, and in none of them does it appear that he lets his emotions get the best on him, go on a temper tantrum when he is outdrawn, or gloat when he wins. Obviously he considers himself a good player, so what? Of course, I would never pay $4000 for 10 hours of lessons either, but that's another matter...

grandgnu

01-02-2005, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of whether you are a winning 100/200 player, here's the thing: You lack a key poker trait: being humble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure David Sklansky might argue that being a 'key poker trait'.

And I've read some of Shawn Keller's threads here, and in none of them does it appear that he lets his emotions get the best on him, go on a temper tantrum when he is outdrawn, or gloat when he wins. Obviously he considers himself a good player, so what? Of course, I would never pay $4000 for 10 hours of lessons either, but that's another matter...

[/ QUOTE ]

A player who is not humble, in my opinion, is more likely to hoot and holler when they win a big hand, and to whine like Hellmuth when they receive a bad beat.

Yes, I know these type of swings can affect all players, but I feel that when someone jumps around pumping their fist and screaming like a crazed madman, that they are not as strong a player as they could be. Their potential would be greater, if they could control these emotional swings. If a person is prone to bouts of extreme excitement over a win, they'll also likely be prone to extreme bouts of depression over a loss. Neither I feel is conducive to maximizing profits

Ulysses

01-03-2005, 02:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
can you please stop posting hands that have your opponents names in them. its rude.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, in a lot of these games, it is very tough to discuss the hands intelligently without knowing who the opponents are.

BabyJesus

01-03-2005, 02:36 AM

I have two students I'm working with now that are almost ready to go pro, neither of them had ever played poker when I started teaching them but they were magic the gathering players.

Half true. I know one of them played before for sure. He told me about a 3/6 hand where he misclicked folding quad kings.

[ QUOTE ]
Naphand you seemed pretty upset and a bit quick to jump to judgement on me.

I have in no way shape or form backed down from playing daryn headsup. Keep in mind some of us aren't glued to the computer, just because I don't check the forum for 24 hours doesn't mean anything, I have a lot of responsiblities at this time. I could give several references but I don't feel comfortable doing that without there expressed permission first and probably not in this public forum.

Please understand sir that I'm not desperately out there trying to make an easy couple thousand "teaching" poker. I actually enjoy teaching people who really want to learn, I find it somewhat fulfilling. However I couldn't see myself eaching more than one student a month, since it is mentally exhausting. I will say that I probably have as much if not more experience teaching at the 15-30 limit level online than almost anyone else in the world.

PM if you are seriously interested I'll probably need at least a 30 days now advanced notice. I have two students I'm working with now that are almost ready to go pro, neither of them had ever played poker when I started teaching them but they were magic the gathering players. I haven't taught anyone from 2+2 yet so if I do teach one of you regulars you could always report back on the quality of service to the rest of the group. Also I'm gonna try to post at least one hand a week, probably some from the 15-30 limit, and I'll break it down for you like how I would if we were working together.

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

[/ QUOTE ]

bholdr

01-03-2005, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How much does David Sklansky charge for lessons, per hour?
I thought it was around the 300$ marker.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like a much better deal. Lightning, you're being undercut by the competition...

theBruiser500

01-03-2005, 02:54 AM

"shawn-

can you please stop posting hands that have your opponents names in them. its rude."

Shawn, ignore subline he is stupid and wrong.

cero_z

01-03-2005, 03:16 AM

Hi Stork,

I guess my smiley face icon was still not enough to tip you off to the joke. Damn it; I actually brought myself to use one of those frickin' things, and it fails to convey my tone properly.

Anyway, it's obviously nitpicky to worry about grammar/spelling in a forum like this, but it cracks me up when people who obviously think they're very smart make elementary mistakes like this over and over. Sklansky and Malmuth are among the most frequent culprits--Mason, I officially revoke your comma and semicolon privileges.

riverboatking

01-03-2005, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lol I'll win $1 off you for everypost you ever made on this website whats your handle on PS? You got 6k on there bro put that glimmer in play or don't be runnin your mouth.

Chickenlittl

[/ QUOTE ]

ok fair enough.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt that Daryn is a solid player if he is willing to play me headsup 15-30. I'm ambivalent about playing him at any those stakes because as a true professional I look for weak opponents not opponents I assume to be skilled. I don't play poker to "beat the best" or prove that I'm the best, I play poker to make money and I like to play against weak competition. I don't have an big ego like some certain plays I just smile and take the money. Only when someone talks badly about my game do I challenge them, and yes you are correct I assumed he wouldn't accept but I really don't think I should be expected to play him that low stakes,

[/ QUOTE ]

weak sauce.
offer a challenge then provide some lame ass excuse when it gets accepted.
i notice there was no mention of limits in the intial challenge.

you are a joke.