My play of QQ questioned in B&M

[John Deere]

Was at the Trop this past weekend, and was involved in a hand that looked something like this: I pick up QQ in EP, and open-raise it. LP makes it 3 and SB caps it out. I call. The flop brings all undercards. SB bets, and I raise. LP calls, SB calls. SB checks to me on the turn (still no overcards), I bet and they both call. The river brings four to a low straight and I check to another lingering player, who goes all in with his remaining $6, and the rest of us call.

The other two aggressors both show KK. One of them, who is old and foreign, first insults my command of the English language (funny, huh?) and then calls me something to the effect of "a stupid college kid" for raising my QQ on the flop. I figured he could have been betting with AK unimproved, and would expect KK or AA to re-raise an all-undercard flop.

At least twice more that night, I saw people cold call with QQ rather than 3-bet it. Now, I'm pretty damn sure that I am not overplaying QQ by 3-betting it pre-flop or raising with it on an all-undercard flop ever if there were other pre-flop raisers. But I also know that I do tend to get over-aggressive at times. Should I have played the above hand differently?

(For what it's worth, the guy who went all in at the end won the pot... he had A7o and hit his backdoor, gutshot straight... board was like 48T56.)

[W. Deranged]

You were absolutely right the whole way.

Pre-flop, QQ always deserves to be three-bet and not cold-called (in all forms of hold 'em, limit or NL, I think QQ is the one hand that always must be reraised preflop).

In your hand, though SB does come in a for a cap, which is a huge play, I don't think you have to assume you are up against AA or KK. People will cap AK, JJ, and some maniacs will throw in the fourth bet just because it caps it and they want to play a big pot. Similarly, you don't have to assume the three-bettor has you beat.

On the flop, you have to raise. If the other players are playing overcards (one of them is very likely to have AK), or even and underpair, you should protect your hand (particularly with coldcallers hanging around). So raise. Anyone with AA or KK absolutely should three-bet you on that flop. Since no one did, I would be with you in thinking my queens were good.

So, the long and short of it is that your opponents have serious tight-weak issues to deal with and you played the hand fine. My guess is that most everyone else agrees with me on this one.

[TheHip41]

Looks good to me. Tell them to take their chips out of their purse next time they get dealt KK on a Trash-Trash-Trash flop

[StellarWind]

You are approaching this subject the wrong way. Once at Paradise I called down with KK in almost this exact situation. Why? Because I knew I was almost certainly against AA but I couldn't bring myself to fold KK on a safe board for one bet. I paid the price.

[ QUOTE ]
The other two aggressors both show KK. One of them, who is old and foreign, first insults my command of the English language (funny, huh?) and then calls me something to the effect of "a stupid college kid" for raising my QQ on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
It sure looks like you misplayed this hand. Listen to what the man is telling you and believe him. These two opponents would not 3-bet, cap, and lead this flop without AA/KK. You could have saved some money here if only you had known.

Listen respectfully to your elder. Let him teach you how he plays poker. Don't take it personally and don't view it as an opportunity to revise your strategic understanding of QQ. Absolutely don't argue with him or teach him back. You want him to be happy and you want him to keep playing exactly the same way he just explained it.

He may also be telling you how his companions play. That's something you need to judge in person.

Next time pocket pair versus pocket pair comes up you can save your money.

[jayrutz2]

Absolutely I'd open raise preflop and call the cap.

On the flop, I'd raise to see where I stand. If re-raised, I probably let go figuring AA, KK or a hit set.

If called by way passives, I'd probably save the turn bet and check down the river. But sometimes I tend to let the turn go a bit too easy.

I will raise, re-raise and even cap with QQ easy...

K

[Randy Burgess]

[ QUOTE ]
You are approaching this subject the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

StellarWind has it right here. Playing QQ very hard on a small flop might be right versus one kind of opponent, wrong versus another. Don't play your cards - play your opponents, who are busy playing their cards.

[sfer]

If the all in guy won you should have mucked your hand. You're under no obligation to show if you're not the last aggressor.

EDIT: My retarded grammar.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
you want him to keep playing exactly the same way he just explained it.

[/ QUOTE ]

thought about TOP when i read this...
...every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose...

[smoore]

I'm with sfer here... I'd throw my AA right into the muck. It *was* AA, right?