more pp fun - expert play?

Seat 1: player 1 ($117 in chips)

Seat 2: player 2 ($460 in chips)

Seat 3: player 3 ($69 in chips)

Seat 4: natedogg ($144 in chips)

Seat 5: player 5 ($176 in chips)

Seat 6: player 6 ($151 in chips)

Seat 7: player 7 ($416 in chips)

Seat 8: player 8 ($130 in chips)

Seat 9: player 9 ($93 in chips)

Seat 10: player 10 ($78 in chips)

player 6: Post Small Blind ($1)

player 7 : Post Big Blind ($3)

Dealing...

Dealt to natedogg [ Jd ]

Dealt to natedogg [ Jh ]

player 8 : Fold

player 9 : Fold

player 10 : Call ($3)

player 1: Call ($3)

player 2a : Call ($3)

player 3: Fold

natedogg: Raise ($6)

player 5 : Fold

player 6: Call ($5)

player 7 : Fold

player 10 : Call ($3)

player 1: Call ($3)

player 2a : Call ($3)

*** FLOP *** : [ 7c 9h Td ]

player 6: Check

player 10 : Bet ($3)

player 1: Call ($3)

player 2a : Fold

natedogg: Raise ($6)

player 6: Raise ($9)

player 10 : Raise ($9)

player 1: Fold

natedogg: Fold

player 6: Call ($3)


At this point, it's pretty obvious that I'm losing to one of these guys AND one of them has my gut-shot out. That also

means catching another jack will be a losing card anyway.


I fold. Anybody think this is a bad fold? I believe people lose more money with JJ than any other "good" hand. But some people disagree with me on that. The rest of the hand to follow.


natedogg

*** TURN *** : [ 7c 9h Td ] [ Kc ]

player 6: Check

player 10 : Check

*** RIVER *** : [ 7c 9h Td Kc ] [ 8h ]

player 6: Check

player 10 : Bet ($6)

player 6: Call ($6)

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $75 | Rake: $3

Board: [ 7c 9h Td Kc 8h ]

player 1 lost $9 (folded)

player 2a lost $6 (folded)

player 3 didn't bet (folded)

natedogg lost $12 (folded) [ Jd Jh ] (a straight, seven to jack)

player 5 didn't bet (folded)

player 6 bet $24, collected $75, net +$51 (showed hand) [ 7h Th ] (two pair, tens and sevens)

player 7 lost $3 (folded)

player 8 didn't bet (folded)

player 9 didn't bet (folded)

player 10 lost $24 (showed hand) [ 7s 8s ] (two pair, eights and sevens)


All was as I suspected. I had 3 outs. It was painful to watch that (totally unexpected) free turn card, though. I had every reason to believe there would be a bet, if not two, on the turn.


natedogg

Very frustrating result but I think your fold was absolutely correct,you had to suspect that player 6 was defending 2 small pair with his c/r and that a 3rd J would bury you to the limper with his 8

just watch out for making expert plays on idiots....gl

Also hope that 2 players reading your post don't raise

your tight ass out next time.


Seriously though, you could have played it either way

in my opinion...


If a QK or J hits on the turn, your outs go from 3 to 8

and you may possibly have the best hand if the J hits(in this

case wouldnt have been good, but the board still could have paired)


I admit I would have called online. Possible putting

someone on 9T..(In this case 1 had T7)


You also could have caught a 9 on the turn and had the best hand.


Also there are A LOT of players on line who would have capped it in that spot with T8 or 98.


I prefer to save my good lay downs with JJ preflop, when facing 3+ cold bets..Although I dont always lay it down..The last time I did, both opponents had TT /images/frown.gif


Also in your original post why does it say:

player 6: Raise ($9)

player 10 : Raise ($9)


How can 2 players raise to $9.00? Did you edit it?

natedog writes,


"All was as I suspected. I had 3 outs. It was painful to watch that (totally unexpected) free turn card, though. I had every reason to believe there would be a bet, if not two, on the turn."


Unless I'm totally missing something, I've got you with 9 outs (from 42 cards) on the turn, not 3. You are a 3.67:1 dog on the turn, you've got good pot odds. Of course, I'm the kind of idiot who will pay off in this situation every time.


- Andrew

He's talking about the flop (T79) vs 78 and 7T.


He needs a 9 (3 left) or an 8 (3 left)..

He had 6 outs on the flop combined with who

knows how many backdoor draws..(22,QK,etc)


An expert play?

>Also in your original post why does it say:

>player 6: Raise ($9)

>player 10 : Raise ($9)


>How can 2 players raise to $9.00? Did you edit it?


The ($9) is how much the action cost the player. In this case player 6 raised $9 to make it $9 and player 10, who had already bet $3, raised $9 to make it $12.


PG

Sometimes you just have to become one of THEM, and suck out.

You actually had more outs than you thought. On the flop, you had 7 outs - 3 9's and 4 8's. On the turn, you pick up more addictional outs, 4 Q's and 3 K's, so now you have a total of 14 outs. I know this is some what result oriented, but this is a pretty big pot and just to fold to two small bets on the flop is a little bit wasted...

Are you saying that 6 outs is enough when facing that kind of betting?


Or are you saying it was an obvious fold?


natedogg

I think you made the right move. You have no idea what cards they had. Knowing what they had, maybe you could justify a call of 2 small bet on the flop, going for the 9, 8, or a runner runner pair, or runner runner QK, etc... But you didn't know that. Don't be results oriented, I think. Your raise on the flop told people that you had strength, and they kept raising. Of course, being low limit, they may be maniacs and getting an 8 or T8 type hand.


Calling might not be that bad of a play actually, but I'd fold, due to the turn being bet/raised possibility. Fold early, or showdown, is my motto!


- Tony

By my count there are 21 small bets in the pot before you have to call 2 more small bets. Since you lose to one of two tens and one seven on the river after getting a 9, and any of those plus one of two eights on the river after getting an 8, I think you have proper odds for a call to see the turn only. You would then have odds to call one bet on the turn if no 6,7 or T comes up, and probably enough to call 2 bets if a J comes, because of implied odds. Of course, that assumes you know that your opponents have the hands they have (or the equivalent). Since it was also possible for one of them to have a set or made straight, your fold was correct, imo. I don't think I could have brought myself to make it, though.

My initial reaction was that it was a marginal

fold or call situation..


I would think calling is correct, because any card except

a T or 7 on the turn will give you more outs.


In other words if a 2 hits you now have 9 outs instead

of 6.


Besides what better flop could you ask for than T97 when

holding JJ. In fact if I was in LP against 3 opponents

and I had to face 3 cold bets on the flop, I would

just cap it. Now you'll definetly disagree w/ that one.


I think you have a tendency to overanalyze based on the previous posts i've read here and the med. stakes board

(which is usually good, since you learn more by doing this,

but come on T97, halfway in alreay, on the flop aka fake betting

round.)