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Sam T.
12-25-2004, 02:16 PM
Hero on the button with QQ, $20 SnG.

Two limpers, MP raises to t60, CO re-raises to 200.

Hero?

Calls. I can't fold, but I also know that I'm going to get called by overcards. I'd rather have a look at the flop. If it's yucky, I can get away with a playable stack.

Original raiser folds, so we're heads up. Flop comes J34r, and CO pushes.

Hero?

I called.

Thoughts?

Chief911
12-25-2004, 03:05 PM
With a raise and reraise preflop I think you have to push. One of the two calls. If they have AA or KK, so be it, but this is a $20, where play is still a bit looney.

I'd push pre, and I'd push after the flop too.

Nick

bigredlemon
12-25-2004, 03:10 PM
I'd fold it.

1. It's early, so none of them are in desperate mode. They don't have to push.

2. He re-raised preflop, which suggests high pair that doesn't want to see the flop. (This is presuming the first raise wasn't a min raise or from a loose player).

3. He pushed on the flop, despite no draws. He either has QQ or KK.

soko
12-25-2004, 03:27 PM
looks like he is just trying to end it here to take the 200 call preflop, AJ is the first thing that pops in to my head.

bigredlemon
12-25-2004, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
looks like he is just trying to end it here to take the 200 call preflop, AJ is the first thing that pops in to my head.

[/ QUOTE ]He re-raises to 200 with AJ? I doubt it. High pair is the only thing that makes sense.

Voltron87
12-25-2004, 03:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
looks like he is just trying to end it here to take the 200 call preflop, AJ is the first thing that pops in to my head.

[/ QUOTE ]He re-raises to 200 with AJ? I doubt it. High pair is the only thing that makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is the first hand of a 20$ SNG, you are giving the opponents way too much credit.

soko
12-25-2004, 03:58 PM
High pair makes sense too, it's a pretty close call/fold situation, too bad it had to happen on the first hand so you dont have any clue how loose/tight this player is. There are more hands to fear, KK, AA, JJ than hands you have beat, mainly AJ, hell even AK, even so, I am probally pushing because it just looks like a steal to me, if you think you are talented enough to survive shorter stacked after the first hand you can fold.

hyde
12-25-2004, 04:07 PM
I'm thinking he has KK, QQ , JJ
and on the first hand at this level (where I play) there is a significant amount of lunacy......
I probably fold this one. Unless I'm in a hurry....even if he has AK he can still beat you too many ways.

Interesting as I think this over, I would not fold KK here, yet would easily fold 10,10........I bet he had JJ..

results please,
hyde

bigredlemon
12-25-2004, 04:19 PM
*drum roll*


KK!


OK i don't know for sure but i've got my money on KK.

soko
12-25-2004, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking he has KK, QQ , JJ
and on the first hand at this level (where I play) there is a significant amount of lunacy......
I probably fold this one. Unless I'm in a hurry....even if he has AK he can still beat you too many ways.

Interesting as I think this over, I would not fold KK here, yet would easily fold 10,10........I bet he had JJ..

results please,
hyde

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking JJ too, but that's a pretty bold move to make figuring hero would only call with QQ or better and hasn't made any moves to show he has a hand like that.

Sam T.
12-25-2004, 04:56 PM
I called initially figuring that if overcards (especially an ace) hit, I could lay this one down, and play comfortably with a t600 stack. When it came J-high, there's no way I was going to fold to a push. AA is going to value bet. KK MIGHT push, but there were a ton of hand that I'm ahead of that would push as well. The push said, "I have a made hand, but don't want you to make yours."

Kudos to those who thought he might be a tad bit loose. He turned over 44. Unfortunately, his Christmas present was a 4 on the river.

david050173
12-25-2004, 04:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking he has KK, QQ , JJ
and on the first hand at this level (where I play) there is a significant amount of lunacy......
I probably fold this one. Unless I'm in a hurry....even if he has AK he can still beat you too many ways.

Interesting as I think this over, I would not fold KK here, yet would easily fold 10,10........I bet he had JJ..

results please,
hyde

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking JJ too, but that's a pretty bold move to make figuring hero would only call with QQ or better and hasn't
made any moves to show he has a hand like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK. He totally missed the flop and figure there is no way you have a hand to call. I figure if he had JJ, he would want a call not a fold.

bigredlemon
12-25-2004, 05:34 PM
Basically, he was your typical fish.

I don't think you could have put him on a set with the way he played it. He'll be paying you off in the long run so I wouldn't sweat this beat.

Vish
12-25-2004, 05:37 PM
I think as soon as you call his 200 preflop, you've made your decision to call his push on that flop. If you thought he had aces or kings, you can't call and hope for a set. Is this incorrect? I suppose you could be paying 200 for the information his flop bet provides, but so early in the tournament it's going to be tough to read much into it.

Bigwig
12-25-2004, 08:29 PM
Being the first hand, this makes it difficult. I like your call normally. But this is party, or some other site that starts with 800 chips, and in this case, 25% of your stack is pretty significant. I might just muck this one and wait. I'm not comfortable going all-in this early with the action in front of me, and I don't like not being the aggressor.

Spladle Master
12-25-2004, 11:01 PM
Pushing all-in pre-flop would make you the aggressor, I think. Just for the record, I hate the flat-call of the re-raise. Do you really think the 44 guy wouldn't have pushed if an ace flopped? Better to get your money in as a 4.5:1 favorite than fold a 9:1 favorite any time an ace or king flops. If he has AA or KK, so be it, but you don't have enough chips left after calling the re-raise to play poker on the flop. Just get your money in and cross your fingers.

Bigwig
12-26-2004, 05:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Pushing all-in pre-flop would make you the aggressor, I think. Just for the record, I hate the flat-call of the re-raise. Do you really think the 44 guy wouldn't have pushed if an ace flopped? Better to get your money in as a 4.5:1 favorite than fold a 9:1 favorite any time an ace or king flops. If he has AA or KK, so be it, but you don't have enough chips left after calling the re-raise to play poker on the flop. Just get your money in and cross your fingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I see your point. I play on Stars, with the deeper stacks, and if this hand was on my site I couldn't fault the preflop call with that amount of chips.

I agree with you that pushing is better than calling in this scenario. It's a push or fold situation. I prefer folding, and waiting. But either is fine, IMO.