What's Wrong With Hollywood

[andyfox]

I don't really want to get off on a rant here, but . . .

After seeing Closer yesterday, I watched Bad Santa last night. At the end of the movie they showed a clip with the director who said Bob Weinstein (a producer) called him up after seeing another one of his other movies and asked him if he had a project in mind. The director Fedexed the script to Weinstein and by 11:00 the next morning Weinstein and he has an agreement to do the movie.

How a Hollywood producer could read that script and think "this will be fine entertainment" is beyond me. Same thing with Closer. Let's see, Jude Law meets Natalie Portman in the street and then has his picture taken by Julia Roberts and ends up in bed with both of them. Hell, I live in Beverly Hills and I go to all the pretty people restaurants and I've never seen Natalie Portman or Julia Roberts. Are there any people in the world who actually live or talk like those people in Closer? That was the most erudite dermatologist in existence. And if there are, is there any reason why we should care about them? And Mike Nichols thinks people should be able to relate to this? Billy Bob Thornton uses the F-word six hundred times to kids, people will like this. Especially if we make fun of old people, fat people, black people and midgets. One wonders what kind of parents, having seen the script, would have allowed their children to appear in Bad Santa.

I know a man who's a big Hollywood producer. He produces one of the top shows on cable TV. He produced Panic Room and other weird movies. He's weird and mean and vicious. When he was an agent, he was sued for sexual harrassment. He threatened to reveal company secrets (such as who's blowing who) and his agency gave him many millions of dollars to go away and also paid off the alleged harrassee. He then went into producing.

His father and his sister are sweet and warm and caring and wonderful people. He doesn't talk to either of them. His father, not a rich man, told him that, since he (the son) is a gazillionaire, and since the daughter is working hard for a living, he's going to leave all his money to the daughter. The amount involved means nothing to the gazillionaire, he spends it on wine every month I'm sure. But it will mean a lot to the daughter. So the son now doesn't talk to either of them. He hates people. Instead, he is a PETA person. He recently sold his Porsche and six other cars because they had leather seats.

I'm no conservative who thinks Hollywood values are ruining America. But I know a few people who are influential in Hollywood and they live in a dream world. An ugly, hedonistic, money-soaked dream world. And that's why we get Natural Born Killers and Alexander and Christmas with the Kranks and Bad Santa and Closer.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Merry Christmas all.

[Rick Nebiolo]

That was a "Dennis Miller-worthy" rant IMO.

Happy Holidays!

~ Rick

[benfranklin]

I don't have any personal knowledge about Hollywood, but everything I see and hear about it leads me to the opinion that it is everything bad about big business, grossly magnified.

The basic principle involved is that the emperor has no clothes, and no one will tell him. Most "creative" people are not creative and (suspecting that they are not creative) are very insecure. Therefore, they do what everyone else does, because if it worked once, it will probably work again. This is the show business equivalent of the big business axiom, no one every got fired for buying IBM equipment.

Hollywood worships money, that is, big box office. If you have big box office, and therefore money, and therefore power, you are by definition brilliant. And no one will tell you you aren't. So everyone you work with kisses your butt, and adores every "new idea" that slobbers off your lips, even if it is a bad idea for a fourth generation spin-off of a mediocre Brit sit-com. That is why Kevin Kostner can make a movie like Waterworld, and no one will tell him it is a bad rip-off of The Road Warrior and a real p.o.s.

And since most people in the industry lack imagination, most of the work is imitative, ripping off whatever is hot at the multiplex this week, and carrying the sex and violence and gross humor another step further.

This same phenomenon occurs in the business world, but it is much more obvious in Hollywood because of great visibility and greater sums of money and compression of time. (Like dog years, a year in Hollywood is equal to 7 years in the real world.)

Limo liberalism and PETA and the rest are all part of the same thing, being trendy and obsequious. It is a tight and in-bred society, and no one has the guts to take a different position. (And most of them probably don't care one way or the other, they are just kissing butt.) Ron Silverman, one of the few out-of-the-closet conservatives in show business, was on one of the cable news shows around the time of the election. He said that he has prominent friends in the industry who campaigned for Kerry, for the sake of their careers, and voted for Bush.

Martin Sheen has a hit series, and therefore power. He thinks that he is politically astute, and knows what is best for the masses. You think anyone that works on that show would ever say anything in public critical of Sheen or his politics or of the Democratic party? You want to guess how long it would take to count the Bush bumper stickers in the studio parking lot?

Making bad movies is no different than making bad products. (Bad in the sense of pointless and imitative. Thanks to the Japanese, our badly conceived products are now well made.) Does anyone really need a special appliance just to cook frozen pizza? Did anyone tell the president of Coca-Cola that New Coke was imitative of Pepsi, and just might not be such a good idea? The emperor has no clothes. It's just a lot more apparent on the big screen.

[Sooga]

Hmm.... to be honest I loved Bad Santa.... I'm in agreement with all the other movies in your list outside of 'Closer', which I haven't seen yet.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
I know a few people who are influential in Hollywood and they live in a dream world. An ugly, hedonistic, money-soaked dream world.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those films are their way of helping us "get it." Sad.

[MelchyBeau]

If I remember correctly Jerry Falwell said it was due to the secular jews who enjoy anal sex.


Melch

[andyfox]

Good post, a lot to think about.

I note that, on West Wing, Alan Alda is playing a somewhat non-Conservative Republican who has the attention of Josh Lyman's character. I wonder if, when Sheen's second term finishes, they're planning on putting in Alda as the new president so they can reinvigorate the show with a more Republican point of view appropriate to the times.

Martin Sheen was politically active long before the series. I've met him and he's very down-to-earth, not at all taken with himself.

Ron Silver, BTW, not Silverman. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[sublime]

just had to edit the title of your post andy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
If I remember correctly Jerry Falwell said it was due to the secular jews who enjoy anal sex.


Melch

[/ QUOTE ]

Jerry knows of what he speaks.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
when Sheen's second term finishes,



[/ QUOTE ]

Sheen is an actor, he doesn't have a term of office. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif


[ QUOTE ]
Ron Silver, BTW, not Silverman. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

When you get old, the memory is the second thing that goes. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[nolanfan34]

There's still hope Andy. My wife, mother-in-law and I saw Sideways tonight, and it's an excellent film. Funny, touching, and a wonderful character study. Sure made me crave wine too.

So, there are still some films out there that don't have the qualities you mention. It's just getting harder and harder to find them.

[J.Brown]

Andy,

First off.........Merry Christmas.

I read all of your posts and count you as my favorite on here who I have not met, not that it means a ton to you, but if you had met me you would take it as a big compliment I would think and hope.......now on with the story.

Hollywood, a mess I agree, but I think you are looking at it from a slightly skewed viewpoint, and I will separate my thoughts on your post into two categories.

First off I am sorry that you know an [censored] of a man that works in Hollywood.
It sounds as though better movies would be made if this guy wasn't involved in any way, shape, or form, but then again it sounds like the world would be better off without him. He is not the problem and neither are the 1500 other high ranking studio mucky-mucks who greenlight some of the trash that makes the theatres. The consumers are. Period.

Stop paying and they will stop making them.

Unfortunately we can't change the bad taste of many many many moviegoers out there who wet their sweatpants and got their mullets in a twist laughing at Bad Santa and then went again this time bringing their neighbors kids along because it was "so danged funny!" We can't stop it only boycott it.

The second part is that Hollywood is fantasy. The movie Closer which is based on a play and adapted by the playwright himself is not suppossed to be real life. It is like David Mamet movies, no one talks that way, ever, not once, in their real lives and that is why they are entertaining.

I am not defending Closer, although I really liked parts of it, but I am defending Hollywood and its ability and far reaching goal to be able transport us into somewhere we can never go, even when we try.

The movie sort of reminded me of some of the people you see hanging at the bar at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons or at the Ivy hoping and praying that some B level actress rolls in, much less Ms.Portman or Ms.Roberts. They want to escape from their ordinary boring lives for just 5 minutes or 90 minutes in the case of some of the movies, even if it doesn't do anything but that. It is a different goal for those of us who don't want that escape factor, but want to be entertained or educated without being offended or repulsed.

The movie was a bit crude in its language and contrived in trying to make us feel real emotion when Jude Law, bless his perfect facial structure, gets his heart broken, but....it was a movie. I know you have to remember that when you pay your $10 and eat your salty popcorn that most people are wanting some of the "transport" factor when the opening credits roll, that is what a movie like Closer is trying to do. Don' you agree on some level with that?

Anyway that was my rant as well I guess, hope this finds you and yours well. J.Brown

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no conservative who thinks Hollywood values are ruining America. But I know a few people who are influential in Hollywood and they live in a dream world. An ugly, hedonistic, money-soaked dream world. And that's why we get Natural Born Killers and Alexander and Christmas with the Kranks and Bad Santa and Closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understand what you're saying about Bad Santa, nothing clever about it.

I think criticizing a movie like Natural Born Killers disagrees with what your post is saying. Like or dislike (I found it average at best) this movie, it attempted to be different, creative, and satirical. Whether or not a movie like this succeeds should be irrelevant. I applaud anyone trying to make movies that don't fall into the normal BS that we are subjected to, NBK was exactly that.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have any personal knowledge about Hollywood, but everything I see and hear about it leads me to the opinion that it is everything bad about big business, grossly magnified.

[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, I hear the same things about the government.

[ QUOTE ]
Most "creative" people are not creative and (suspecting that they are not creative) are very insecure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? How does this make any sense? There are plenty of creative people in the world. Maybe you are seeing the wrong movies, reading the wrong books, listening to the wrong music, and looking at the wrong art. If you want some examples, I love sharing recomendations (especially literature /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) If you are comlaining about pop-culture (e.g. popular films, art, etc) it is what makes the most money, because what the most people like. Sorry if a lot of people's taste sucks, but that's capitalism.

[ QUOTE ]
So everyone you work with kisses your butt, and adores every "new idea" that slobbers off your lips, even if it is a bad idea for a fourth generation spin-off of a mediocre Brit sit-com. That is why Kevin Kostner can make a movie like Waterworld, and no one will tell him it is a bad rip-off of The Road Warrior and a real p.o.s.


[/ QUOTE ]
Costner isn't exactly making a lot of movies anymore... Waterworld is a very good reason for that.

[ QUOTE ]
Martin Sheen has a hit series, and therefore power. He thinks that he is politically astute, and knows what is best for the masses. You think anyone that works on that show would ever say anything in public critical of Sheen or his politics or of the Democratic party?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand criticizing someone for speaking out about their beliefs. If you feel strongly about something, speak out. I do in conversation, and would do so on a larger stage if given the chance. You don't have to agree with his beliefs, but shouldn't criticize him for voicing them given the option.

[natedogg]

Bad Santa was not a children's movie. It was a raunchy comedy for adults. It wasn't very good, but you do have to admit the negotiation scene where Bernie Mac wouldn't budge off 50/50 was pretty funny.

Plus, I think it's important for movies to crassly make jokes about blacks, women, midgets, jews, and anything else considered to be a sacred cow by the PC police. Relax people.

The reason Hollywood makes movies like the ones you list is because they make money. That's all there is to it.

natedogg

[andyfox]

I imagine there were always a lot more lousy movies than good ones. But I don't think there were so many cheap and ugly movie.

I too thought Sideways was terrific.

[andyfox]

Good, thoughtful post. And thanks for the kind words.

A lot of those people at the Beverly Hills hotel have no idea what life is like anywhere else. There was a great line in Wag the Dog when De Niro tells Dustin Hoffman that, if what they were trying to do worked out, he would be up for an ambassadorship. Hoffman says, "Ambassadorship? I don't even like to leave Brentwood." [Brentwood is a ritzy area bordering Beverly Hills.] I also remember Woody Allen giving an interview where the interviewer told him some other filmmaker had covered the same ground he was covering in his (Allen's) latest movie. Allen said something like, "Really? This I didn't know."

I just think there's a lot they don't know.

[andyfox]

"The reason Hollywood makes movies like the ones you list is because they make money. That's all there is to it."

It think that's a big part of it, but not that that's all there is to it. A lot of the decisionmakers live in an unreal world where running into Natalie Portman or Julia Roberts is par for the course. It's not a course very many of us get to play on.

[sfer]

Closer really wasn't that bad. Sometimes smart, selfish, mean-spirited people are entertaining to watch.

Also, everyone knows that real stars live in the West Village, not LA anymore. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[andyfox]

"Sometimes smart, selfish, mean-spirited people are entertaining to watch."

I agree. Charles Foster Kane was entertaining to watch. So was Phyllis Dietrichson. And Noah Cross.

But not those four.

[Paluka]

I have a couple things to say about this rant:

1) You can't just say there is something wrong with Hollywood because you thought a couple movies were bad. There are tons of movies made every year that I think are terrible that many, many people enjoy.

2) There are misanthropic jerks everywhere. They aren't confined to Hollywood. The Hollywood jerks do have their own quirks though- they treat people like scum but then belong to PETA. Elsewhere in the country they praise Jesus while hating black people. Every region and every industry has its own assholes.

[theBruiser500]

i liked bad santa, thortn is a good actor

[andyfox]

It's not just that a couple of movies are bad. It's that, based on a number of factors, including people I know personally who are in the business, that the powers that be are out-of-touch. What's important to them, the way they see things, are peculiar to the way they live, which is unlike they way 99.9999% of people live. In the "good old" days, the people who ran the stuidos at least knew that they were not ordinary people.

Being in the garment business, I have had plenty of opportunities to see what a-holes exist in businesses other than show business. But I've also hung out around show business people and show business types at various times in my life and they talk about "the business" in a way unlike others talk about the business they're in. There's a sense of self-importance that I think exists that comes through in the work. It's what I sense in The Closer that I think made me dislike it so much.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Andy,

I'm having this horrible memory that must have been repressed the first time I read your lead post in this thread.

The memory has come back and now is a bad dream. In the dream I ran into you and Jim a week or so ago at the Bike and I mentioned I saw the movie "Closer" and said I thought it was sort of interesting and that my friend liked it too and I may have, quite unintentionally, sort of recommended it to you.

Please tell me it was just a nightmare! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

~ Rick

[J.Brown]

Andy,

So true, so true.

I loved Wag the Dog, Hoffman is a genius for sure.

You are someone that I am thankful for in this New Year for your insightful thoughts and ability to share them in a thought provoking and entertaining manner. You are even fun to disagree with /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Happy New Year and I promise to post with you soon. cheers, J.Brown

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not just that a couple of movies are bad. It's that, based on a number of factors, including people I know personally who are in the business, that the powers that be are out-of-touch. What's important to them, the way they see things, are peculiar to the way they live, which is unlike they way 99.9999% of people live. In the "good old" days, the people who ran the stuidos at least knew that they were not ordinary people.

Being in the garment business, I have had plenty of opportunities to see what a-holes exist in businesses other than show business. But I've also hung out around show business people and show business types at various times in my life and they talk about "the business" in a way unlike others talk about the business they're in. There's a sense of self-importance that I think exists that comes through in the work. It's what I sense in The Closer that I think made me dislike it so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is true that many artists are out of touch with normal people and in their own world. It is true that many successful business people are jerks. Maybe Hollywood has managed to take the worst from both worlds.

[andyfox]

We did indeed see each other. I don't remember whether you recommended Closer or not. I do remember your recommended Maria Full of Grace and I would not have seen that fine picture without your suggestion. So even if you did, however inadvertantly, recommend Closer, one out of two ain't bad.

I'm going to see On the Waterfront (at the Nuart in Santa Monica) this week. Now that's a movie.

[nothumb]

hi andy,

I agree with you that most movies are crap, and that most famous people live in a little bubble... so, in fact, do many non-famous rich people near where I live, many of them liberals as well. So, in fact, do many conservatives in government and rich people on all sides of the coin. They make ridiculous crap that reflects their own ideologies and sensibilities and it percolates into the public mind until we worship and idolize their way of life and their mindset. Ever read Gramsci on hegemony? Sharp guy, given that he spent most of his life in a cell.

Here's the thing. Most people could give a flying poop about Gramsci, or about good movies, or about anything you or I think. It's pretty hard to argue with power. This is why conservatives in government have so much contempt for academia and Hollywood producers have so much contempt for family-first film activists. Because, guess what, they're not going to win the money argument any time soon.

So, basically, the only thing worth thinking about or getting upset about in this whole Hollywood saga is, 'how can I make something that will expose the absurdity of this horrible, self-indulgent crap and win the mind-war against this particular form of hegemony?' If you're not concerned with that (and frankly, I'm too tired to do that to Hollywood or the GOP or anyone else right now) why get worked up about it? It's rough on the nerves and the spirits also.

I just watched "Flirting With Disaster" last night and it was a fun movie.

NT

[Gabe]

I really liked Bad Santa.

[andyfox]

I rest my case.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
We did indeed see each other. I don't remember whether you recommended Closer or not. I do remember your recommended Maria Full of Grace and I would not have seen that fine picture without your suggestion. So even if you did, however inadvertantly, recommend Closer, one out of two ain't bad.

I'm going to see On the Waterfront (at the Nuart in Santa Monica) this week. Now that's a movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for putting my nightmare to rest. I thought our friendship might have been ruined!

Earlier today I was in a game and two players at the other end of the table were talking about "Closer". They both liked it and one of the players was some sort of Hollywood type. I just nodded when they asked if I saw it.

In your rant when you talked about your Hollywood Producer acquaintance it reminded me of the movie "The Player" directed by Robert Altman and starring Tim Robbins. That's as close as I get to those types (fortunately).

~ Rick

[andyfox]

I loved The Player. One Altman film I like that not many people have seen is Cookie's Fortune. Try it, I think you'll like it.

[Zeno]

It is rumored that God is a Hollywood Producer.

-Zeno

[bholdr]

bingo

[private joker]

I agree with the general principle, but as someone who works in Hollywood I think there are a ton of better examples of crap major-studio films. Both Closer and Bad Santa were relatively independent -- Santa's director Terry Zwigoff came from the obscure documentary world (Crumb) and then did a low-budget kickass quirk-comedy called Ghost World. Mike Nichols has been in and around the A-list for 30 years, and it's hard to dis the guy whose credits include Virginia Woolf, Carnal Knowledge, The Graduate, Catch 22, and Angels In America. Really. Can't we save our ire for the likes of Garfield, Fat Albert, Hellboy, Gigli, and Man On Fire?

Secondly, my take on Bad Santa in particular (I didn't love Closer but I think it's no worse than mediocre) is that it's perfect for what it is -- a vulgar rant against the hyper-commercialism of a phony culture's idea of what used to be a religious holiday. Letting kids see it is a mistake. Letting smart adults see it is a blessing. Here's the review I published a while back:

[ QUOTE ]
I don’t know how many takes director Terry Zwigoff had to shoot before he got the salad leaf to land exactly where it does on Billy Bob Thornton’s bottom lip, as he – playing a sour, crude, mean-spirited, alcoholic department store Santa – spit-screams at a mother and her young child, “I’m on my [censored] lunch break!” However the scene was filmed, it was blessed with the same magical comic serendipity that shone upon nearly every other moment in the deliciously warped Bad Santa.



Virtually a wall-to-wall parade of bile-spewing monologues and freakish outbursts of anger, Zwigoff’s grinchy black comedy is the perfect anti-Christmas film. Sure to offend a multitude of viewers (one Campus Christian in my row was so disgusted that she stormed out of the theater 40 minutes into the film), it skewers the warm and gooey Christmas family genre by inserting into the surrogate father formula this self-loathing, volatile character named Willie, played to jaw-dropping perfection by Thornton. Tony Cox (Me, Myself, & Irene) is great as Santa’s little helper (a black midget prone to exploiting his minority handicap and screwing his hot Asian accomplice), and John Ritter proves he was still the master of the reaction shot at the time of his abrupt death. But best of all is the uproarious script by John Requa & Glenn Ficarra, rewritten by Joel & Ethan Coen. Possibly setting a record for the use of the word “[censored],” its profane indulgence would make Mamet blush. Clever insults and hilarious tirades are vomited from Thornton’s mouth every scene, but instead of just being a show-off piece for bitter nihilism, the script serves to consistently and deeply reveal Willie as a redeemable bastard; a rich character as despicable and cruel as he is charming in his anti-heroism.


Zwigoff lends his piece a crude visual style, cutting out of rhythm and rarely moving the camera (a similar inertia befell his slightly superior Ghost World), but one gets the feeling that it wouldn’t be so funny if it were smoother with its editing and mise-en-scene. He knows right when to bolt out to a wide shot or frame a certain body part out of the picture, and the results are constantly gut-busting. While it may turn you off to hear that the plot revolves around Willie’s growth and ultimate redemption by looking after a curious, tubby 8 year-old, rest assured that the sap has been drained out and replaced by a rainbow geyser of obscenities so outlandish that the only risk you run seeing Bad Santa is the pain in your stomach and empty lungs from laughing so hard at what has to be the most hilariously twisted dark comedy in ages.

[/ QUOTE ]

[helpmeout]

Everyone is brainwashed by the media.

Stupid people pay money for things because the media tells them to.

If the majority of people are stupid then why would rich people make movies for thinking people?

Throw in a couple of famous actors, a good advertising budget, something controversial and a crap story and you can make millions out of stupid people.

I have better dreams than the crap hollywood spits out.

Capitalism is about money not improving society. Thats why we get crap and will always get crap.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is brainwashed by the media.

[/ QUOTE ]

Including yourself? Isn't it facile and simplistic to whine about the "brainwashing" by the media? Where would you be without the media? How much of the information you have about the world outside your own little space do you owe to the media? How much has your life been improved by the arts and entertainment found in the media? Music. Movies. News. Internet. Would you rather live in a cave? Do you not trust yourself to decide which media outlets are "brainwashing" you and which ones are actually performing a decent service? This is an ignorant statement.

[ QUOTE ]
Stupid people pay money for things because the media tells them to.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, stupid people are entertained by things that smart people are not entertained by. Who are you to tell some fat Missouri housewife she should see "Lost In Translation" instead of "Christmas With the Kranks?" People get what they want because the marketplace survives on demand.

[ QUOTE ]
If the majority of people are stupid then why would rich people make movies for thinking people?

[/ QUOTE ]

They do make movies for thinking people. They also make movies for non-thinking people. There are a lot of movies. This is another simplistic and ignorant comment.

[ QUOTE ]
Throw in a couple of famous actors, a good advertising budget, something controversial and a crap story and you can make millions out of stupid people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I paid good money to see "The Matrix Reloaded." It sucked. Does that make me a stupid person? Or does it make me someone who was curious to see a film that may or may not suck? Did the media brainwash me into seeing this piece of crap? If you think it's this easy to make a $100 million blockbuster, you've got another thing coming. Do you think Sam Raimi's "Spider-Man" was just a marketing meeting? Maybe he didn't show up for work most of the time, and let the film make itself. All it took was some advertising, right?

[ QUOTE ]
I have better dreams than the crap hollywood spits out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt this. And even if you did, I doubt you'd have the skill to turn those dreams into images on celluloid. Very few people do.

[ QUOTE ]
Capitalism is about money not improving society. Thats why we get crap and will always get crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Help -- Karl Marx called, and he wants his reductive cynicism back. Is it productive to sit on your a$$ and whine about how capitalism is the reason you're superior to all cinema? Is it helpful to be so self-righteous that any attempt by an artist to express himself or herself in the mass media marketplace that doesn't meet with your approval deserves to be accused of pure greed?

Maybe for every ten Riddicks and Van Helsings and Tomb Raider 2s we get, we also get a Spider-Man and a House of Flying Daggers and a Million Dollar Baby and a Carlito's Way and a Face/Off and an American Beauty and a Talented Mr. Ripley and a Thin Red Line and a Fight Club. Maybe if Fox studios had listened to your bitching they wouldn't have "tossed in Brad Pitt, Edward Norton, an advertising budget, some controversy and a crap story about boxing" and made one of the most profound satires of the very capitalism you think you're crusading against right now. At least some people in Hollywood are doing something about it. I much prefer the failed attempts by artists to critique their culture than the impotent whining of amateur critics who reduce the complexities of an entire medium and industry to a few stale jabs about the stupidity of the masses.

[andyfox]

I did laugh out loud three times during Bad Santa: when grandma comes back to life; when Thornton comes up the escalator and ends up punching out the paper mache donkey; and, indeed, when Thornton was on his lunch break. Otherwise, I found no clever insults or hilarious tirades, just the same joke ad nauseum. And I thought Willie was protrayed as completely unredeemable and saw no deep reveal.

But I don't really care whether or not the movie was well-made or funny. My point is that some major player in Hollywood could see this script and think I gotta have this and come to a decision to get it made by 11:00 the following morning when so many good projects go years without getting a shot. It's good to have different points of view and all kinds of movies. Some people I know absolutely loved Closer. Nothing wrong with that. You found the script uproarious, I didn't (and I'm a Coen brothers fan); again, that's fine.

It pains me to be coming close to agreeing with the right-wingers who see a pervasive ugliness in Hollywood, a vulgarity and crassness that is becoming the norm.