Paradise Poker Security

I just had a really positive experience with Paradise that I wanted to share. I'm sure that players collude all the time by sharing hands over the phone, etc. But last night I witnessed some very fishy play between two players who appeared to be raising to protect each other, without ever showing down. (folding on the fourth bet on the river was the common modus operandi) (for those curious, see hand history #110749592).


Anyways, within two hours, Paradise had reviewed the hands in question and banned the two players from Paradise. Now I'm not sure how difficult it will be for them to just open new accounts, but I was definitely impressed with the swiftness of their action, especially given that I had been (and remain) dissatisfied with their seemingly lax attitude toward intentional all-ins.


RH

Interesting. And a really fishy hand. That last 20 was just not worth it. LOL.


Seriously though, I feel good and bad about your story. I think that those types of players should be weeded out, but you're right -- all they have to do is open another account. Moreover, I am of the understanding that when Paradise catches someone cheating that they freeze the account and everything in it. (I don't know if that's still the policy, but I remember people on this forum being "under suspicion" and complaining of this type of response from security.) So what happens to the money? Presumably these cats had money in there... Does that go back to the people involved in the hands where there was cheating or does Paradise just keep it? Something similar happened at Planet way back and they refunded my account the loss for each hand where I was involved with some specific player that had been caught cheating. I think that that is in order in spots like this. The penalty (since its not easy to enforce a ban when one can simply open another account) needs to be the cheaters' cash...


I'd be interested to see what they'd say if this question was posited to them. Perhaps you might ask as a follow up...???


-CW

Roy, I played 5/10 heads up with DocShu a few days ago and he played the same way there. The same type of aggression and same type fold on the last bet. Now those two could still be colluding but my feeling is you just got two aggressive fish banned pending a review by Paradise security. Remember, what may look like collusion or cheating could actually be extremely poor aggressive play. I guess you haven't played in California and those no foldem but raisem holdem. Sure there is collusion there too but they give up so much of their edge by putting in extra action with the worst of it that it's counterproductive. But what do I know.....I'm just a cat.


URMeowed

folding on the fourth bet on the river with a $500ish pot is simply poor aggressive play? Let me assure you, this is not a common occurrence, even in CA, where I live and play regularly. This was not one instance, but several. Always these two players -- I watched at least three instances of teaser bets on the flop and turn by one player to clothesline players behind. I had my doubts as well, but thought that it was a good idea to report them nonetheless.


Do others not agree? Do you think that you should tolerate fishy (in the suspicious sense) play if you think that the player is on the whole a losing player?

I'll ask. I doubt it will get anywhere -- their email is very careful not to state any firm conclusions collusion:


"Thank you for your email this evening regarding the play of docshu and Flash4024.


Upon review of their play this evening, we did find a few hands that certainly were played in a manner that could be construed as suspicious. Although we can not conclusively say that the two were in fact playing as a team, we have decided that it is in the best interest of the games to ban the two from future play in Paradise. We have closed their accounts at this time.


We thank you again for your report. We are always pleased to look into the concerns of our valued players and ensure that appropriate action is taken. "

I didn't mean that the three bet and then fold on the river play was rampant in California. What I mean is there is a lot of over aggressive play in California that could be construed as collusion. Sure it's a good thing to report anything suspicious but just be careful when you post about it in an open forum. Give them the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. What I'm trying to say is that there is a slight possibility that they are morons from my experience with one of the players at a head up table.


URMeowed


P.S. Pick a city name and stay there already Roy

Your post is far from a positive experience. It's one more reason you (or anyone) should never play at Paradise again. Nuff said.

That confirms it, Paradise is your guardian angel.

.. in my several complaints to PP about apparent collusion, they always point out that the fact that both parties are "not unprofitable players" are what rule out collusion, and as frustrating as it is to me to be the victim of such things from time to time, it does make sense - if they aren't making money cheating, by god, how stupid are they??


The other factor is "Percentage of the time they played together". Both are probably quite high.


I give full kudos to PP for doing the best that they can. The fact is, all two good poker players need to do, once per hour, is give each other one "boost" and they will make each other tons of money while helping each other out. But fortunately, the cheaters rarely get that greedy.


M.