Weak-Tight No More

[sthief09]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (18 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

[private joker]

I don't see the BB 3-betting this turn without a 7. I guess you might be good 5% of the time justifying this river call, but it's close.

I also still prefer the standard line of just calling a flop raise, not 3-betting without the nut flush draw. But lately there have been a ton of posts where people are jamming draws on the flop with 3-bets and caps. Jamming with a draw is the new smooth-call.

[billuhbong]

i dont see the point in 3 betting with ur flush draw, ur potentially losing more bets and its not a made hand

[Danenania]

This is okay. I'd like to find a river fold but if BB is a complete unknown then I'm looking him up as he will be a nutcase 1 in 19 times. No other street is questionable imo. Nice hand.

[Danenania]

In this situation a flop 3-bet is mandatory. First of all for value with the flush draw but also to protect your share of the pot. You'd love to fold out hands like low pairs (not pp's), gutshots, and the lone A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif that can hurt you with redraws, but if they call that's okay too.

[WillMagic]

This is an excellent three-bet. He has massive pot equity here - close to 45% with three other players in.

Well played.

Will

[47outs]

[ QUOTE ]
In this situation a flop 3-bet is mandatory.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not correct. The 3-bet became incorrect and value lost when MP folded on the flop.

My reasoning is completely lost if MP folded a 7 (the winning hand) and therefore gave our hero the pot with a jack on the river.

outs

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see the point in 3 betting with ur flush draw, ur potentially losing more bets and its not a made hand

[/ QUOTE ]

when the pot gets big you shouldn't be caring about winning extra bets. you care about winning what's in the middle more often. I'm not saying that my 3-bet necessarily accomplishes it, but keeping people in for when I hit my flush draw isn't an option.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I also still prefer the standard line of just calling a flop raise, not 3-betting without the nut flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is weak/tight thinking.

In this case, he has a flush draw and two overcards. The pot is large. He's only going to make his flush about 35% of the time. By 3-betting, he puts enormous pressure on anyone with a better jack or queen to fold. Cleaning up your overcard outs and buying extra equity with a flop 3-bet is a smart play here.

[sthief09]

I don't really think the flop 3-bet is even close. big pot. I have a big draw and 2 vulnerable overs on a really coordinated board, and the chance to knock someone out or get great value on my draw

[sthief09]

it says 15/30 6-max but it was a full table

[wheelz]

I'm too much of a pussy to raise it preflop, but I think every other street I play the same.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really think the flop 3-bet is even close.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's close. You're not that crazy about knocking people out here. You want them around to pay off your flush. Knocking people out only increases your chance of winning if you hit a jack or queen on one card and the other card would have improved someone to a hand better than that and no one who stays in manages to improve to something better than a pair of jacks (or already has something better). That won't happen that often and the pot isn't that big. It's not like six people saw the flop for three bets. The occassional time you win the pot because of your raise (or get extra into a pot you were going to win anyway) isn't that much bigger a factor than the times you will knock people out who would have paid you off or pay extra when you end up losing the hand. I'm not saying that I don't like the raise here because I think it's fine. But saying that it's not "even close" is a bit much. It's fairly close.

[arkady]

Awesome hand, imo.

All you people who want to try to find a fold on the river are smoking excessive amounts of ganja. With a pot that big and TP you better do your darnest to try to find a call.

[James282]

Hooray.
-James

[7ontheline]

I likey. 3-betting is great - how can you say the pot isn't that big? It was raised preflop with 4 players and 5 more SB have gone in already - that's not bad, especially since there is going to be more money going in. Check-raising good draws to build the pot and clean up some outs has been something I have been working on lately.

[BottlesOf]

It's not close. They call--you win, they fold--you win. It's a nice 3-bet.

[Entity]

Sweet hand, dude.